KCS SD22ECO - rebuilt SD40-2 with 710ECO

Where's the slug to go with it? On its own, too little HP for regular mainline use, too much for low speed switching. Hump engine?

bubbajustin

Remind me again, is that EMD's 4400 hp engiene on it's SD70ACe? Or is that the 6000 hp engiene in the SD90Mac's? Sounds quite interesting though...

2200hp. comes from an 8-cyl version of the 16-cyl diesel used in the SD70ACe. The idea is to turn a SD40-2 into a Tier II compliant intermediate horsepower locomotive.

there is no slug to go with this unit, the KCSM SD22ECO's are not equiped as slug mothers. a 2200hp, 6 axle unit will not have too much power for switching service, it will be just fine.

  Bryan Jones

The SD22ECO looks like a successor to the SD38/39 and an EPA-compliant replacement for the various de-turboed SD40's currently serving as hump pushers and transfer power.  GE is apparently coming out with an ES22 powered by a straight-6 GEVO engine aimed at the same market.

 Justin, The 70ACe's have the 710 engine, producing 4,385hp. There were only 25 true H-engine equipped SD90MAC's produced, they were numbered in the 8500-8524 number series when they were built. The H-engine really isn't going anywhere wight now. They had too many bugs in it. When they started producing the 90's. They were actually named SD9043MAC's. They had the 710, and they produced 4300hp. So hopefully this helps. Most of the true 90MAC's are gone, scrapped, or still in service in Texas.

                                                   Dru

favuprailroadfan

 Justin, The 70ACe's have the 710 engine, producing 4,385hp. There were only 25 true H-engine equipped SD90MAC's produced, they were numbered in the 8500-8524 number series when they were built. The H-engine really isn't going anywhere wight now. They had too many bugs in it. When they started producing the 90's. They were actually named SD9043MAC's. They had the 710, and they produced 4300hp. So hopefully this helps. Most of the true 90MAC's are gone, scrapped, or still in service in Texas.

 

                                                   Dru

 While you are correct that the H-engine "isn't going anywhere right now" in North America, the Chinese are building several hundred H engined 6,000 hp locomotives so EMD is attempting to further develop the engine..

 Thanks for that info. I didn't realize that the Chinese were doing anything with it.

Actually, nearly 70 were built, with the vast majority going to Union Pacific. And none are in operation on Union Pacific's lines in Texas. All have been returned to lease companies or are in the process of being scrapped.

And has been said, the H engine isn't dead and is going into 300 JT56ACe locomotives for China.

Leo_Ames

Actually, nearly 70 were built, with the vast majority going to Union Pacific. And none are in operation on Union Pacific's lines in Texas. All have been returned to lease companies or are in the process of being scrapped.

And has been said, the H engine isn't dead and is going into 300 JT56ACe locomotives for China.

The "H" engine is a very popular engine for Tugboats and Offshore Supply Vessels also. It may reappear in the V12 version when Tier 4 Emission Standards take effect in the middle of the next decade.

that is incorrect. Here is the real deal. There were a total of 68 true 6000hp SD90MAC-H's built. 62 units went to UP, 4 to CP and 2 test units owned by EMD. 22 of the UP units were in the Phase I carbody while the remaining 40 were in the Phase II carbody. All 4 CP and 2 EMD units were in the Phase II carbody. There are currently 0 SD90MAC-H's in regular service, though the pair of EMD units are used for static testing at LaGrange. The 4 CP units are retired and for sale. UP returned the 40 Phase II units to EMD at the end of the lease as well as 1 of the Phase I units which was covered under this lease due to being the very first SD90MAC-H built. These 41 units are owned by EMD are are stored at several locations accross the US and are NOT being scrapped. UP owned 21 of the SD90MAC-H's outright and these units are being scrapped with certain parts salvaged for reuse. Sofar only a handful of these units have been scrapped, with additional units shipped out as others are completed. Again, only these 21 units owned by UP are being scrapped. The 265H engine initially had bugs in it but they have long since been corrected and currently are being installed in a group of 300 new 6000hp locomotives for China. Likewise both the 12 and 16 cylinder 265H diesels can be found in marine service as well. In the next few years you will be seeing the 12 cylinder 265H prime mover re-emerge as well as a replacement for the 16-710 prime mover as the emissions standards become more strict.

Bryan Jones

And that is different from what I posted? Reread the post you're calling incorrect, all you did was restate what had already been clarified.

My original post really wasn't aimed at you but at another post in this thread. However you really didn't clarify anything just saying that nearly 70 were built and have either been returned to the leasor or scrapper. I gave the breakdown of each group, exact numbers and what is happening with each group. The info you gave wasn't clear and that can be an issue when someone is looking for an answer to a question or accurate info.

Bryan Jones

I see, and I agree.

I was just puzzled how it was anymore correct than what I had already stated (Besides being more detailed).

Bryan Jones

The 265H engine initially had bugs in it but they have long since been corrected and currently are being installed in a group of 300 new 6000hp locomotives for China. Likewise both the 12 and 16 cylinder 265H diesels can be found in marine service as well.

I just went to the EMD web site, and the only powerplants listed for stationary or marine applications is the 710G in 8, 12, 16 and 20 cylinder variants.  The 265H engine is only mentioned in reference to the Chinese units.  Following is a link to the Power Product site:

http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/power_index.jsp

Do you have some "inside info" about EMD's future product offerings???

Not sure whats up with the EMD website, but the 265H prime mover is definitely in marine service and has been for many years now.

No "inside info" on future EMD product offerings.  You can bet your bottom dollar that you will be seeing a new 12 cylinder, 4500hp 265H powered locomotive within the next several years though, most certainly prior to the Tier 4 emissions regulations taking effect.

Bryan Jones

Bryan Jones

Not sure whats up with the EMD website, but the 265H prime mover is definitely in marine service and has been for many years now.

No "inside info" on future EMD product offerings.  You can bet your bottom dollar that you will be seeing a new 12 cylinder, 4500hp 265H powered locomotive within the next several years though, most certainly prior to the Tier 4 emissions regulations taking effect.

 

Bryan Jones

I would only "bet my bottom dollar" on an updated SD89MAC if I was 100% certain that EMD will be still operating as an independent company in a few years...When Greenbriar and Berkshire Holdings bought the company they publicly stated that their goal was to build EMD up and eventually sell it to a larger company (such as CAT or BOMBARDIER), If say, CAT purchased EMD, they may chose to use their own Engines rather than the 265 H. Time will tell..

BTW, I am aware that the unions objected to both CAT and Bombardier as owner during the initial negotiations with GM, but by the time Berkshire is ready to sell it will be a whole different job market...

creepycrank

What about Rolls Royce buying EMD, they have Allison and can make package deal with their Z drives on marine units. CAT would only ruin EMD with their engines.

Well, CAT Engines were certainly problematic in the case of the MK5000C's but AFAIK the smaller engines have had some sucess in locomotive application. Caterpillar O.C is a major competitor to EMD in the Marine Engine Market....

I had heard that the larger CAT engines didn't work in locomotives, I liken it to the failed Sulzer experiment that I had also heard didn't go well. Apparently in this case they didn't adapt well to the environment a locomotive has to endure.  Granted I never read much in Trains about these after the initial stories, heard elsewhere.

Part of the reason the CAT 3600 series engines didn't get any traction (pun intended) with the RRs was their insistence on the RRs using their independent franchise maintenance companies as the point of contact between the RRs and the manufacturer.  The RRs greatly prefer dealing directly with the manufacturer.

Returning to the original post, are there any exteral changes to the unit, similar to Pacific Harbor Line's MPI MP20C-3's, rebuilt from SD40's?

externally from the few photos posted online sofar there appear to be virtually no major external differences in the KCSM SD22ECO's and the SD40-2's they were rebuilt from. Probably the biggest change is the paint. The same goes for the GP22ECO's rebuilt from GP40-2's.

Really the only units you are likely to see a major physical difference in are those rebuilt from early generation GP units, such as EMDX demo #7102 which was rebuilt from a GP9 and has an extensively redesigned longhood to be able to accommodate the new components.

Bryan Jones

NOTE: I realize this Thread is a little old (2009) but some of the information and materials previously discussed are relevant to the current times. So I opted to continue the Thread..Hoping that the additional information would be of interest currently...

While looking around YouTube.com, specifically at some of the videos of Kansas City Southern de Mexico videos, I began to see a number of  KCS deM units in the 'Belle' paint scheme.

      The major difference to the expected "Belle"paint scheme; was an addition to the rear of the long hood, which was about a 2/3's views of a globe of the world added.   This seems to be strictly on the Mexican Railroad Operated Units(?) 

      Upon closer inspection, on the rear of the Cab side was the type notation of 'GP22ECO'.  {obviously, a rebuild designation]. and on the long hood at around the area of the handrail height was another notation for '710 re-power'. 

        Elsewhere in this Thread is a notation that apparently EMD is looking to rebuild a group of about 300 of type of  710 engine equipped units. 

      I wonder how many of these units have gone to the KCS de M Railroad? The seem to start with a number of 2400, but I have been unable to find any reference to the number that the KCS de M is planning to buy or how many the KCS is going to get, if any?  It looks at a glance to be the perfect type of unit to use on the the Mexican side, as observing from the various videos I've seen the track and ROW seem to be pretty 'scruffy' and a 'B' (2axle) Trucked Units seem to be able to negatiate the tight radius curves and the track structure(?) in Mexico.

     Do any Posters have any counts on numbers for these units going into service in Mexico?

      Are any planned for use in the 'States" ?

  Any ideas or comments on how they are preforming?  (or NOT performing?

This video linked here: shows a train powered with a 'Slug' in the lead for a GP22Eco.  A GPTEB-C (slug) #402, GP22-ECO-M #2400, and on the rear a GP22ECO#2651, GP38-2#2060   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdzQt1wKEGo&feature=related

Take a look at the following link for the KCS and KCSdeM section of "The Diesel Shop".  From the looks of it, they have a very active 710ECO repowering program aimed at both the US and Mexico.

http://www.thedieselshop.us/KCS.HTML