General Discussion (Classic Trains)

Thursday morning, I named the Trenton and Philadelphia (1851 Guide), which had been renamed the Philadelphia and Trenton by 1868.

Johnny

If I had read your last post carefully, I would have seen that it was the Harlem Railroad's station, just below City Hall, that brought Abe Lincoln in from the north.

Johnny

Since the NY and Harlem taversed the Harlem Valley to Chatham, NY thence west to Troy, the railroad with stops at Rhinecliffe, Poughkeepsie, etc, was the New York and Hudson River Railroad.  But the Harlem did come into Manhatten as did the New Haven a few years ahead of the NY&HR RR.

Gosh who's up? Johnny did the heavy lifting. Henry came closer to the right answer.

Yes, Henry is right. As he says, the Harlem railroad eventually reached Chatham, going through White Plains, Dover Plains, and Wassaic (the current end of the MTA's Harlem line). Why go east from Boston and change at Chatham when you can go directly south along the Hudson (unless you are hunting for new route mileage)?

I yield.

Johnny

Just to keep things moving late on a Saturday night (I just heard from the other room that it is "live") lets put this one out since we are on the New York Central tracks in the Hudson and Harlem valleys lets stay with the Commadore's interests.  All three NYC lines out of the Metropolitan area either hauled the trains of another railroad to the junction and one of the three actually had a tenant.  What were the three connections whose trains shined the Commadore's rails and who was the tenant? Oh, the New York, New Haven and Hartford is not one of them.

West Shore....................................New York Ontario and Western as Tenant.  But I forget the name of the junction, just know it is north of Haverstraw.

 Hudson..........................................both Albany and Troy as junctions with the Delaware and Hudson, and Troy as junction with the Rutland.   The Laurentian, Montreal Limited were D&H trains, the Green Mountain, the Rutland

 Hudson..........................................Buffalo as junction with Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo

Harlem...........................................for a very short time, until the New Haven takeover....of the New York and New England RR route through Wilamantic to Boston.   Originally this connected with the Putnam line, also a NYC route from the NY Metropolitan area, except that the Manhattan terminal was the 155th Street and Eighth Avenue terminal of the Ninth Avenue Elevatged, and the Putnam line crossed the drawbridge that was later used by the 9th Avenue El's connection to the Jerome Avenue elevated subway line (now No, 4) in the Yankee Stadium vacinity.   Both running via the Harlem and running via the Putnam, the junction was in Brewster, I think.

 But then much later there was a through service "via the indland gateway" between Boston and Grand Central Terminal using the NYC's B&A between Boston and Springfield, the NYNH&H from Springfiled south to the usual Woodlawn junction and the Harlem line into NY.   Possibly Amtrak runs a train via this route today, I rode one once about 20 year ago.   The equipment was the ex-Roger Williams Budd NH equipment.

daveklepper:

West Shore....................................New York Ontario and Western as Tenant.  But I forget the name of the junction, just know it is north of Haverstraw.

 Hudson..........................................both Albany and Troy as junctions with the Delaware and Hudson, and Troy as junction with the Rutland.   The Laurentian, Montreal Limited were D&H trains, the Green Mountain, the Rutland

 Hudson..........................................Buffalo as junction with Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo

Harlem...........................................for a very short time, until the New Haven takeover....of the New York and New England RR route through Wilamantic to Boston.   Originally this connected with the Putnam line, also a NYC route from the NY Metropolitan area, except that the Manhattan terminal was the 155th Street and Eighth Avenue terminal of the Ninth Avenue Elevatged, and the Putnam line crossed the drawbridge that was later used by the 9th Avenue El's connection to the Jerome Avenue elevated subway line (now No, 4) in the Yankee Stadium vacinity.   Both running via the Harlem and running via the Putnam, the junction was in Brewster, I think.

 But then much later there was a through service "via the indland gateway" between Boston and Grand Central Terminal using the NYC's B&A between Boston and Springfield, the NYNH&H from Springfiled south to the usual Woodlawn junction and the Harlem line into NY.   Possibly Amtrak runs a train via this route today, I rode one once about 20 year ago.   The equipment was the ex-Roger Williams Budd NH equipment.

I want to give it to you, Dave, but can't.  And not just because I am  being parochial in thought by limiting the question to the Hudson/Harlem Valley either.  The TH&B train, I believe was a NYC train and not a TH&B train NY to Toronto, so I don't count that.  The "inland route" would have been all NYC via Chatham off the B&A line; a CNE jct at Millerton was not effective because I believe it was north bound off the CNE to the Harlem Line and the I don't believe the :PUT had any direct trains to GCT..   But, yes, the O&W was the tenant on the West Shore Weehawken to Cornwall.  As a hint the D&H connections at Troy and Albany are correct, too.  There are two more parts to this Hudson/Harlem question to make it whole. 

The New Haven was a tenant of the Harlem from MO (Mott Haven Jct.) (5.4 miles above Grand Central) to the Harlem’s station.

It has long been my understanding that the "Inland Route" was through Springfield and New Haven. Through service existed on this line as early as 1868, and was stopped before June of 1955. Amtrak revived the service, spottily, but no longer has a through train (In 1997, we rode from Boston to New York over this route). When Amtrak first revived the service, someone who was ignorant of competivive fares thought that fare should be higher than that for the Shore Line because the route was about four miles longer.

When were there through trains through Chatham? There is no representation in the June 1868, June 1893, June 1916, or June 1930 Guides.

Johnny

Deggesty:

The New Haven was a tenant of the Harlem from MO (Mott Haven Jct.) (5.4 miles above Grand Central) to the Harlem’s station.

It has long been my understanding that the "Inland Route" was through Springfield and New Haven. Through service existed on this line as early as 1868, and was stopped before June of 1955. Amtrak revived the service, spottily, but no longer has a through train (In 1997, we rode from Boston to New York over this route). When Amtrak first revived the service, someone who was ignorant of competivive fares thought that fare should be higher than that for the Shore Line because the route was about four miles longer.

When were there through trains through Chatham? There is no representation in the June 1868, June 1893, June 1916, or June 1930 Guides.

Johnny

But if it were a through train to Boston via Chatham it would have been NYC (as would the Harlem train through Chatham to Pittsfield and Adams, MA) and not pertinent to the question.  And I waived New Haven off because it is outside the Hudson/Harlem valleys.  There are still two parts of the answer left.

I thought I got three.   With the through service via Brewster, the New York and New England was not part of the New Haven.   When it was taken over, the service via Brewster was dropped and rerouted to New Haven.   Pasenger service from Willimantic to Brewster was restored, I believe, when the Pouhkeepsie Bridge was opened a Maybrook - Wilimantic service established but it didn't last very long.   Did you include the West Shore as one of the three?  Or did you mean the Putnam?   YOu could say there are four:  East -to-West:  Harlem, Putnam, Hudson, and West Shore.    So railroads are NYO&W, D&H and RUtland, and NY&NE.   I did not include the New Haven.  I simply mentioned that through service (which at one time did include dining and parlor cars, possibly not making it to the lightweight era) as something interesting.   I now recall that when I rode it, and I rode it simply to allow my Boston area host to pick me up a few blocks from his home at the Newton station, the equipment was the ex-Roger Williams, but now I remember I had to change across the platform at New Haven, and the Budd equipment did not originate in GCT.   YOu could also, as I mentioned, add the TH&B.    Oh yes, there was the interesting move of the through sleeper to Lake Placid.   Started out from GCT on the NYC, Albany or Troy to the north on the D&H, but then on the branch to Lake Placid it was back on the New York Central!

I thought I got three.   With the through service via Brewster, the New York and New England was not part of the New Haven.   When it was taken over, the service via Brewster was dropped and rerouted to New Haven.   Pasenger service from Willimantic to Brewster was restored, I believe, when the Pouhkeepsie Bridge was opened a Maybrook - Wilimantic service established but it didn't last very long.   Did you include the West Shore as one of the three?  Or did you mean the Putnam?   YOu could say there are four:  East -to-West:  Harlem, Putnam, Hudson, and West Shore.    So railroads are NYO&W, D&H and RUtland, and NY&NE.   I did not include the New Haven.  I simply mentioned that through service (which at one time did include dining and parlor cars, possibly not making it to the lightweight era) as something interesting.   I now recall that when I rode it, and I rode it simply to allow my Boston area host to pick me up a few blocks from his home at the Newton station, the equipment was the ex-Roger Williams, but now I remember I had to change across the platform at New Haven, and the Budd equipment did not originate in GCT.   YOu could also, as I mentioned, add the TH&B.    Oh yes, there was the interesting move of the through sleeper to Lake Placid.   Started out from GCT on the NYC, Albany or Troy to the north on the D&H, but then on the branch to Lake Placid it was back on the New York Central!

Actually you got 2 and 1/2.  If I say more I will have to answer the question.  Although the last full "1" has not been mentioned at all.