Trackplan Help - Minnesota & International modified to Lake Superior Railway and Navigation

That plan is really a simple point to point plan.  I'm not sure exactly what issues you are having adapting it to your space.  Put a shelf not more that 24" around your room with an isthmus if you need one, have one end with the float, the other with the larger yard, and put your industries between.  Thats about it really.  If you want a double decker then that is your call if you feel you need one. 

True, it is point-to-point.  The issue I'm having, or think I'm having, is whether the plan will fit my space.  I realize I will have to "unfold" the original design, but with the space I have, in the drawing, the white space, I have to keep the gray area open, it will fit without bizarre radiou and with space for people to walk into. 

Especially as how I'd like continous running.  And, I think the second level will be needed, not only for a decent run length, but, for staging

rockythegoat

True, it is point-to-point.  The issue I'm having, or think I'm having, is whether the plan will fit my space.  I realize I will have to "unfold" the original design, but with the space I have, in the drawing, the white space, I have to keep the gray area open, it will fit without bizarre radiou and with space for people to walk into. 

The original plan is in a 15 x 18 ft space.  You are trying to put it in a roughly 9 x 25' space.    Doesn't look too promising.

Hmm, yes I see what you are talking about.  A hidden staging yard underneath is quite possible and not very hard to do at all, the continuous running may be a bit more difficult as the original plan has reversing loops on each end, and unless you set them for auto operation (PITA if you ask me) it's not very well adapted to that sort of operation.

Perhaps instead of trying to duplicate the track plan itself, it may be better for you to capture the theme or "style" of the railroad that inspires you.  You can then have a regular dogbone layout that looks like a two track point to point, but allows you to have continuous running, fits easily into the space you have given the limitations you are working with, and will allow you to have the industries you desire.   The dogbone can be bent in the center down an isle, the hidden staging yard can go under the isthmus and the ramp for the yard can come out at one end of the bone.  That seems to me much better for your needs.

 If you want a Minnesota theme, why not have a look at Michael Maas' "South Central Minnesota" from the November 2005 Model Railroader ?

 That one is 7' 6" x 22' 6" - it would fit into your space without any compression. Track plan database (for current subscribers): http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1313

Smile,
Stein

Stein:  Great minds think alike.  "South Central" made my very short list of plans I liked.  What I didn't prefer was the duckunder, but, I know I'm going to have to make a comprimise somewhere if I have any hope of getting what I want.  

So, to remedy that, I thought of making it a dogbone, but, then a train will pass through the middle scene (4) times per "lap" unless I somehow figure out a way to scenic it so there is some sort of separation.

But, maybe I keep the layout as is and somehow figure out how to add a second level for more staging and a longer run.

Anyone care to take a stab at designing that piece?  Again, I can build, I can't design.  At least so it makes sense anyway.

Can you supply more info on your opinion on why you think auto operation reversing loops are a PITA?  I was thinking of using that method if I went to loops. 

I'm not busting your chops, just want other viewpoints before I commit to something which may in the end not work for me.  Or may.  Ya never know what you don't know, ya know?

Lionel makes 3 rail AC trains. Most on this site will scoff at the idea of these "toy" trains.  But the greatest thing about the 3rail AC is that you don't have to worry about polarity of reversing loops, and the switches will work automaticaly if the train is coming from the wrong direction. For 3 rail you build a layout as you want it and hook up two wires and have fun.  For 2 rail DC or DCC, it involves isolating the loop, reversing polarities on the main, and triggering the switch with optical or reed switches.  It's been my experience that it works, but it's never 100% reliable.  That is why I say it's a PITA, first you have to wire it, control the polarity and the switch automaticaly- it's just too much to go wrong and I don't enjoy that much as it has to be constantly monitored.  But to each his own.  I would rather have a dog bone and have a "northbound" train and a "southbound" train run the scene twice than deal with a reversing loop. 

INTERESTING TRACK PLAN,

• When 'unfolded' that track plan needs about 37' across the back wall - You have about 26'.  You may need to 'lose' one of the towns along the main line. 
• Another issue is Bemidji - note that the area by the depot is 'open' on the track plan - your wall by the door will create an access issue.
• And in Brainard - there will need to be access to the industries at the bottom of the track plan - another 3' isle to be allowed for,
• Staging - The reverse loops are clever, but 1/2 of your running when operating is in the 'dark'!  Also, you will need to do some back up running to enter/exit the staging.  And there is only 6" of clearance from the top of te rail in staging to top of rail on the above layer.  Since you have about an extra 12" of width for the main part of the layout, why not put the staging along that 26' wall with a 2" high viewblock/hill between the staging and the Pine River/Walker area.  This will allow you to keep the entire mainline on a single level(this is Northern Mnnesota/Michigan).  You can get at least 4 through staging tracks in a 10" 'slot' and still have some scenery.  And your staging tracks can be double ended so they can be used by either WB or EB trains.  Your operators will be able 'see' their trains as the enter/exit staging from either Brainard or Bemedji.  It will also make thing easier for your 'traffic manager' to swap out cars between operating sessions.

  I have a 4 track, 'double ended' staging area 22' long and about 6" higher than two small towns to the front of the staging..  I have a hill that rises about 2" above the staging and has a rock face with some trees.  Unless a train is moving in staging, one does not see the staged trains.  I had a previous layout with a hidden reverse loop and 3 hidden staging tracks - I learned my lesson.  The 'on-stage' towns to the front are at 48" and the staging is at 54".  I am 5' 8", so the staging tracks are accessable with a small tool box/step stool.  Cleaning track in staging is sure a lot easier when you can 'see' what you are doing!

Jim Bernier

tangerine-jack:  Got it. I've never been a fan of loops myself, just for the reason stated, all of that electric button switching and if you forget, the train shorts and stalls.  But, with DCC and the "wonder electronics" out there to do it automatically, I was at least consiering them.  I do agree with your comment, its more stuff to go wrong. 

I've always liked dogbone plans for the reasons you mention.  I just need to figure out the scenery issues with them.  Although, could always hide the back tracks behind a ridge or something but, then I can't see them run.  Decisions, decisions. 

Jim:

Thkx for the comments.  Something in the back of my mind said there were issues here and you found them.

Your comments on "un-hiding" the staging make sense.  I was thinking that 6-8 inches was going to be tough to deal with.  I didn't catch the back up move to staging.  Backing up in hidden staging - seems like a recipe for disaster. 

Back to the drawing board....

 By looking at the plan, "A" connects to "B" with a straight shot (continuous run).  The staging loops referenced by the "A" and "B" are facing point movements, under the other end of the layout.  Shouldn't be any backing into the loops.  The currently available DCC auto-reversers seem to be trouble-free and reliable.  Many are adjustable.  

  You are correct in that trains can run into those reverse loops without backing.  However, the ability to 'stage' trains on those tracks is just about impossible - there is only 6" of clearance.  And as I mentioned, you wind up with almost half of your running 'off stage'.  I have operated on lots of layouts, and what happens is the operator turns up the throttle as he/she gets 'antsy' about if the train is still moving.  If he does not have a derailment down there, he will explode from the tunnel at max speed!  I have seen this way too many times.  Adding multiple tracks for those loops may wind up with stub tracks - backing will need to be done.  Any below layout staging needs to have at least 8"-12" of clearance.  There WILL be a derailment down there eventually, and it will be a PITA to clean up if you cannot get your hands in there.

Jim