Layouts and layout building

jeffrey-wimberly wrote:

There have been layout building contractors for almost as long as there have been layouts to be built, and it's not the first time that a professionally built layout has gotten a big write-up. Look at Clark Dunham's big O-Scale layout that was built for a museum. It was built by a professional crew in only a few days! Did that stop the model mags from writing it up? no. This is no different.

Having worked for Clark Dunham, (on and off), in the past 15 years, I can definitively say that none of the layouts are built in just a "few days". The layouts can take anywhere from a month or two, 6 months or even a year or two, (the Cincinatti S scale layout) and involve anywhere from 5 to 15 craftspeople. Final assembly on site usually does take just a "few days".

modelmaker51 wrote:

jeffrey-wimberly wrote: There have been layout building contractors for almost as long as there have been layouts to be built, and it's not the first time that a professionally built layout has gotten a big write-up. Look at Clark Dunham's big O-Scale layout that was built for a museum. It was built by a professional crew in only a few days! Did that stop the model mags from writing it up? no. This is no different. Having worked for Clark Dunham, (on and off), in the past 15 years, I can definitively say that none of the layouts are built in just a "few days". The layouts can take anywhere from a month or two, 6 months or even a year or two, (the Cincinatti S scale layout) and involve anywhere from 5 to 15 craftspeople. Final assembly on site usually does take just a "few days".

A few years ago MR had an article about a layout that was based on Flager's Florida RR through the Florida keys.  The layout was very well done and used many insightful techniques.  I learned some things from that article and I very much enjoyed the layout.  I would not have wanted to have missed that article.

The layout was professionally done.

-John

modelmaker51 wrote:

Having worked for Clark Dunham, (on and off), in the past 15 years, I can definitively say that none of the layouts are built in just a "few days". The layouts can take anywhere from a month or two, 6 months or even a year or two, (the Cincinatti S scale layout) and involve anywhere from 5 to 15 craftspeople. Final assembly on site usually does take just a "few days".

modelmaker51 wrote:

jeffrey-wimberly wrote: There have been layout building contractors for almost as long as there have been layouts to be built, and it's not the first time that a professionally built layout has gotten a big write-up. Look at Clark Dunham's big O-Scale layout that was built for a museum. It was built by a professional crew in only a few days! Did that stop the model mags from writing it up? no. This is no different. Having worked for Clark Dunham, (on and off), in the past 15 years, I can definitively say that none of the layouts are built in just a "few days". The layouts can take anywhere from a month or two, 6 months or even a year or two, (the Cincinatti S scale layout) and involve anywhere from 5 to 15 craftspeople. Final assembly on site usually does take just a "few days".

See, I'd rather hear about how custom layouts are built than what people do with them after they're bought.  They did a little project with the Methles 2 years ago, but I would love to read about how a team builds a large layout in 6 weeks.

On the other hand, I don't want to read about the guy who bought it.  That's like me writing an article in MR every time I buy a new locomotive.  Someone else did the work; I bought it.  I read MR for inspiration too, and it's the work that inspires me, not "lookey what I bought!"

I don't really understand how the non-handicapped can buy pre-built layouts.  If I didn't have time for railroading (my wife thinks I don't anyway), I don't know what I would do...  But buying someone else's layout would feel less than honest to me.

I want to survay my layout as a world I created, not purchased.  But I guess if other folks have other objectives, have at it!

Kudos to the custom builders.  I imagine it's hard work and it's not a huge profit-maker.  I'd be worried that getting paid to model railroad would take the fun out of it.

Dave Vollmer wrote:

See, I'd rather hear about how custom layouts are built than what people do with them after they're bought.  They did a little project with the Methles 2 years ago, but I would love to read about how a team builds a large layout in 6 weeks. .... several paragraphs deleted ....  Kudos to the custom builders.  I imagine it's hard work and it's not a huge profit-maker.  I'd be worried that getting paid to model railroad would take the fun out of it.

I've been told (by LHS owners and one gentleman who converted his layout into a public attraction) that, as soon as it becomes a job driven by business hours and expected schedules, it ceases to be a hobby.  I rather suspect it's like the contractor, who builds custom houses for other people to live in.  There's the satisfaction of a job well done, and the pleasure of the new homeowner - but not fun like a personal hobby.  You would be building someone else's dream, not your own.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Did you design and build your own DCC system?

Did you design and build your sound locomotive?

Unless you scratch build everything, you are buying stuff built by a pro.  The only actual argument I see in this thread is where to draw the line.

Some people like to build stuff, and some people like to play with their trains.  Most of us are somewhere in between.  Do we not have enough room for everyone?

When I read an article written by, or about, a pro, what I see is a highly experienced craftsman sharing his (her) skills.

I am not in these forums to brag about MY skills, I am here to learn from others.  If I can share a little of my experience along the way, that is good, too.

Phoebe Vet wrote:

Did you design and build your own DCC system? Did you design and build your sound locomotive? Unless you scratch build everything, you are buying stuff built by a pro.  The only actual argument I see in this thread is where to draw the line.

While that carries the argument to it's logical extreme, I don't think it's valid in this case.  The products we buy to incorporate into our layouts are tools, a means to an end.  Your argument would mean that unless I grow the trees from which I cut the lumber for my benchwork, then I'm cheating.

I would compare it to playing an instrument in an orchestra.  You learn to play the instrument through hours of practice, you learn the music through constant rehearsal, and you combine your efforts with the efforts of others to create a performance.  It takes commitment, and a significant investment of time and effort and in the end, you create a one of a kind performance.  Buying a layout is akin to purchasing a CD...  Yes, you can play the music and probably enjoy it thoroughly, but other than swiping your credit card, you really don't have anything to do with the finished product. 

Lee 

jeffrey-wimberly wrote:

There have been layout building contractors for almost as long as there have been layouts to be built, and it's not the first time that a professionally built layout has gotten a big write-up. Look at Clark Dunham's big O-Scale layout that was built for a museum. It was built by a professional crew in only a few days! Did that stop the model mags from writing it up? no. This is no different.

Same for the rebuilt BNSF at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.

If you want to run 'em, run 'em, if you want to build 'em, build 'em; or anything in between is the way I see it.

wm3798 wrote:

For me the joy of the hobby comes from the sense of accomplishment when I build something, whether it's benchwork, an electrical circuit, or a detailed scene.  I would be loathe to have someone else enjoy my hobby for me... This type of article leaves me cold, and cheapens what it means to really participate in a hobby, and diminishes Model Railroader's reputation as a leading magazine. I suppose there's a market for this sort of thing, but as I stated in another thread about scratch building, you won't find an article in American Woodworker about shopping for a dresser at Ikea. Lee

Which is why I let my sub expire, its turning into a RTR mag for new people, nothing wrong with that at all, and perhaps that sort of mag is needed. It is really disturbing to me that MRR featured a layout that was built by a contractor.

I now sub to RMC and Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette because of the "craftsmanship" and the high level of modeling.

MHO

RedSkin wrote:

After reading the MAY issue of MR, I had a question and was wondering what everyones take on this would be.  The article I'm referring to is Lots of Locomotives in a small space.  Now my concern with this article is the fact that the person had a layout building company build the layout.  The overall size of the layout is rather small and I could understand if the person had some sort of disablity that would prevent them from build such a layout, but the excuse that he didn't have the time, I just don't know.   I think the idea and concept of the layout is great and its good to see smaller layouts featured in the pages of MR, but one that's been for the most part built by company as opposed to the actual modeller.....to me it is like nothing more that a three page ad for that company.

 I finally got the May issue and read the article. The article is three pages.

 Of those three one short paragraph mentions that the layout designer (the owner did design the track plan himself, he designed the operations plan himself, he kitbashed some of the structures himself) hired a custom builder company to build the trackwork and most of the structures.

 The rest of the article describes the inspiration for the layout, the planning process, operating the layout, and a little bit about kitbashing extra structures by the owner.

 Some ideas gleamed from the article that may be transferable to other modellers:
    - A layout that is all engine terminal
    - The layout of the engine terminal
    - Staging for engines using a second roundtable
    - Think more about sequential ops plans for single user layouts
    - Using curtains to limit dust collection on layout

 I really don't see much of a problem with this article here. Apart from the fact that it causes a little envy in those of us (including myself) who cannot afford to hire someone else to do those parts of layout building we are not all that fond of doing.

 Grin,
 Stein

Phoebe Vet wrote:

Did you design and build your own DCC system? Did you design and build your sound locomotive?

Respectfully, I find that sort of argument to be a cop-out.  Sure, most of us buy trains off the shelf.  Nothing touches my layout (except for testing) without at least some weathering; most get replacement wheelsets, extra details, etc.

But the layout in my opinion (and, I gather, the opinion of many here) is where my creativity is supposed to shine (or not).  I understand not everyone can build a layout due to handicap, etc.  For those folks, custom layouts are fine.

Like Lee, I feel like the idea of paying someone to build your layout cheapens the hobby just a bit for those of us who work very hard to achieve what they do with a check.

Extending it to other hobbys:

Buying an entire stamp collection at once vs. collecting them one at a time.

Buying a custom-built hotrod instead of working on it in your garage.

...etc.

Is someone who buys a custom built model railroad a model railroader?  Technically, yes, if he runs it.  But do I hold him in the same class as those who build their own?  No.  Not unless they had no other way to have a layout (disability).