General Discussion (Model Railroader)

That fast tracks video made me a believer.  I watched it a week ago and now I have the confidence to give handlayed TO's a try.  Now I need to get enough money to buy the kits. 

Joe - I am definitely interested in your hybrid TO's using the FT and CV jigs and ties. 

Being only 28 years old, I think investing in the FT jigs would be a good idea since they will get tons of use for years to come.

Smitty

hdtvnut wrote:

.................., I recommend Peco 83.  These supposedly have been designed to US standards, and do not suffer the compromises of the 100 line for deep wheels, etc.  I am using Peco 75's, and seldom have a derailment, even with Fine tread wheels.  One person told me he grinds the top of his Pecos enough to ensure that the frogs don't stick up, but I didn't find that necessary. The Electrofrog versions can be made electrically very reliable by 1. using external contacts to switch the frog power, and 2. by cutting the underside jumpers connecting the frog and closure rails, and adding a pair between the closure and stock rails.

I agree with hdtvnut and would just add that I have found that Peco code 75 points need a 0.2mm shim which is simply glued (using medium cyano) onto the guard rail on the inside curve to stop wheels catching the point of the frog.  Peco Code 83 points don't need this mod.

smitty311 wrote:

That fast tracks video made me a believer.  I watched it a week ago and now I have the confidence to give handlayed TO's a try.  Now I need to get enough money to buy the kits.  Joe - I am definitely interested in your hybrid TO's using the FT and CV jigs and ties.  Being only 28 years old, I think investing in the FT jigs would be a good idea since they will get tons of use for years to come. Smitty

Wanted to report the CVT step-by-step turnout construction how-to with photos on my personal web site is now complete. The thread shows "handlaying" a turnout using the CVT ties as a jig for PC tie construction (kind of a poor man's Fast Tracks jig for $4) to get an ultra-reliable turnout that looks as good as it operates, with good tieplate, spikehead, frog, and point area detail.

Here's a photo of the finished turnout.

(Click image to enlarge)

This turnout cost me about $8 in materials and took me just over 2 hours to construct. The resulting turnout looks great and its reliability is as good as its looks -- better than a commercial turnout on all counts, IMHO. 

 

Joe, is that your grin I see reflected in the metal shank of the tool?

Nice turnout.  I like the tie detail, and am convinced now that you have it all figured out.

-Crandell

I've added some commercial turnout comparisons to my CVT thread.

One interesting data point is that both the Walthers and the Peco code 83 turnouts are off from the NMRA specs, with the result being in-gauge wheelsets will likely pick the frog and derail.

I illustrate the problem and discuss solutions in the thread on my web site, along with photos. 

(Click image to enlarge)

(Click image to enlarge)

(Click image to enlarge) 

Well modeling in N scale I first use Peco code 83 commercial turnouts.

After  some years  appears the code 55 which I use heavily on my growing railroad.

All are electrofrog type. More than a choice in N scale I thing it's a rule to use electrofrog type turnout to avoid stalling.

In N scale it's difficult to check a turnout and make modifications, so the only thing I do it's powering the frog and the points rail by solder a small wire on the frog and small jumps to the points rail.This wire is powered by the switch motor. I check just the closure of the points rails.

I can say they are bad turnouts just a little out of scale and  the switch rod and headblocks are not very graceful but they work well and are all powered by hankcraft motor display on my layout (just a few with tortoise motor).

A few months ago I buy a Fast Track jig for curved turnout, not the easier to build, but they are very accurate, fine in scale and have running qualities like a Rolls; I hightly recommand them for N scaler and the choice of number frog is great.For big railroad the Fast Track system could be cheaper than ready to run turnout. 

I don't know about the oder brand of turnout in N scale but in Europe confirmed modeler use Peco track generally.

Bye   Marc Magnus

I've used a few Peco turnouts and soldered additional wires for stock rails and points:

Now with my new yard I've used the new Peco code 83 #6 and did the same.

Wolfgang 

One thing I have found with CV turnouts, and possibly others, is excessive clearance at the guard rails. If there is too much clearance cars can drift over and pick the frog derailing. It all depends on how fine the flanges are on your wheels, how much room you need at the guardrails. Most commercial turnouts are made for the wheels on off-the-shelf cars, and are too sloppy for RP25 or 87 scale flanges. I have found relief by cutting thin strips of old credit cards and building up the guardrails thickness (crossection thickness, not height) with them using super glue, to narrow the gap and control the flanges from contacting the frog.                    jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

I did the same jumper wire fix to one point rail on a W/S 3-way #6.  Hard to do with shaky hands, but the alternative was worse.

johncolley wrote:

One thing I have found with CV turnouts, and possibly others, is excessive clearance at the guard rails. If there is too much clearance cars can drift over and pick the frog derailing. It all depends on how fine the flanges are on your wheels, how much room you need at the guardrails. Most commercial turnouts are made for the wheels on off-the-shelf cars, and are too sloppy for RP25 or 87 scale flanges. I have found relief by cutting thin strips of old credit cards and building up the guardrails thickness (crossection thickness, not height) with them using super glue, to narrow the gap and control the flanges from contacting the frog.                    jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

John:

That's why I don't use the plastic guard rails that come with the CVT kit, but apply my own guard rails from metal rail, and then solder them down onto the PC ties that I've used to replace a few of the CVT plastic ties. By replacing a few of the plastic CVT ties with PC ties, I can get a turnout that's dead-on accurate to the NMRA gage, and the turnout works smoother than any commercial turnout.

Here's a few photos (you will be able to appreciate them better if you click on the photos to get the full-sized image) ...

CVT turnout with PC ties replacing a few plastic ones (Click to enlarge) 

 

CVT turnout above, finished and painted (Click to enlarge)

 

CVT turnout has perfect check gauge (Click to enlarge)

 

By contrast, Walthers turnout check gauge too small (Click to enlarge)

 

Even Peco code 83 check gauge too small (Click to enlarge)

The only turnout that is completely to NMRA spec among the CVT, Walthers, and Peco code 83 is the CVT turnout. Because the CVT turnout has slots for the rails to help hold them in proper gauge, building the CVT turnout -- especially when you use the Fast Tracks point filing tool -- is a snap and the resulting turnout goes together fast, and is superior in both looks and performance to anything offered commercially as ready-made. And at about $8 each in quantity, the CVT turnouts are most economical.

I cover all the details of how to build a CVT turnout using PC ties with step-by-step photos on my personal web site.