Layouts and layout building

Hi guys.

Instead of jumping right into a "huge" room sized layout as my first layout, I'm wondering if I may be better of building a smaller layout to work with and operate for a while. I want a layout with different scenic elements to work with, and at the same time I want to be able to operate it in a somewhat prototypical manner. In other words; both interesting scenery and a track plan that makes sense...

This is what I've come up with so far. Basically it's a simple oval with a double sided backdrop at the center of the layout, a small station in the front, and a runaround with a couple of industries at the back.

The interchange spurs are drawn with bumpers at the ends, but these may be extended toward the edges for future expansion or staging yards. Minimum radius is only 360mm, but it works fine with my engines and rolling stock. The short straight track sections with rectangles inside are uncoupling tracks (I use Märklin track and couplers), and my engines also have remotely controlled couplers to allow uncoupling elsewhere on the layout.

I'd like comments and suggestions about the track plan, whether or not it will work from an operational point of view.

Thanks

I agree. For a first layout you are smart to keep it small.  This plan should work well for you, allowing switching, a small yard for classifying, and two passing tracks for 2 train operation.

Enjoy

Paul 

It seems as if you have a lot of "special trackwork" on the bottom half of the plan for a small layout-- a 3-way turnout, a double-slip switch, curved turnouts and spurs that cross each other.  If the track to the right of the slip switch is used as a team track, it is not very usable as a switching lead.

You have a small yard.  I would think you need it for classification, not "storage" or "interchange" as marked.

Maybe I went a little overboard with the trackwork... I have lots of Märklin track pieces, including the 3-way switch and the curved turnouts, and I was hoping to use the most of them on this layout. A second layout will probably be DC, this one is mostly for fun and practice.

The layout is intended as a short point-to-point between the two interchanges, I closed the loop for some continuous running. The interchange tracks could lead to separate staging yards, or I could just replace the cars manually in between sessions.

As for the labels they are only suggestions, I haven't decided exactly how to use the different spurs yet. I guess maybe a team track would create more operating possibilities than a dedicated switching lead, and I also wonder if the team track and the engine service track should switch places...

My problem is that I want a little of everything, and I don't know what to leave out...

Just thinking out loud... 

The viewblock might be more effective if it were lower and/or instead a gently rolling hill with tree height that can add to the viewblock effect.  There could be some buildings built on the hillside, or building flats used as viewblocks for a greater industrial or city appearance. 

If the layout were at an eye-level height, the scenery realism would also be enhanced.  It is an old modeler's technique that eliminates that looking down on every layout's tendency to have its' trackage look as a "bowl of spaghetti."  You can also use the layout's underside for storage if it is high enough.

As to a layout on a door - one of may favorites is Dave Vollmer's Pennsy Middle Division.  There are lots of good ideas here regardless of scale, time period, or locale, to be modeled.

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/dvollmer/index.html 

The Märklin three-way turnout is a really nice addition to a modeler's bag of tricks.

Hi Svien

Looks fine to me are you able to skew the track plan a little so it is not running parallel to the edges.

it seems to look more real when the track doesnt follow the edges of the table to much.

Draw a blank plan (just the outline) of the area for the big one then put this small plan on to it making sure the proposed for extension tracks are in the right place.

Then start work on this one as if its the real deal not just a learner make sure your track work is spot on and do the best you can at every thing.

Once this one is completed to your satisfaction then go back to the blank plan with this layout superimposed on it then add the next piece to the blank plan keeping it manageable and making sure it adds something to the layout, then add the table work and go through the process again.

In the end your max available space will have been filled without going to 0 operations and all ways improving

But it is very smart to start small more wannabe layout builders have failed for taking to big a bite at the apple and choking on it than started with a sensible bite at the apple.

regards John

I agree with starting with too big a layout can be an invitation to total inertia -- everything had to be done -- and learned -- at the same time and consequently nothing is done, or learned.

Small scenes or projects can work the same way without even rising to the level of a small layout.

Looking at this plan, the complex trackage aside, another alternative to the "sky and hills" type viewblock is to take a page from the late, great Art Curren and have a solid length of buildings be the viewblock, at slightly skewed angles  -- he built them so that the opposite side was an entirely different building, and then had local switching at those buildings -- that makes good use of the middle part of the oval.  You could even introduce the old trick of a car being shoved in a building on one side becoming a car to be picked up on the other.   E.g. a flat car with tractors being delivered to an implement dealer's shed, shove it through "the wall" and on the other side it is now a tractor factory shipping out a load.

Dave Nelson

tgindy:
That is a great looking layout indeed, I couldn't believe it was N-scale when I looked at it the first time!

The treecovered hill sounds like a good idea. I want a rural setting for my layout, and a large industry or a city block would look misplaced. Layout height will be around 120-130cm/47-51" and I am 182cm/5'11" tall, so long as I can't see across the layout and what is on the other side I'm happy.

Storage underneath the layout is not an option though. I don't have enough space for a permanent freestanding layout like this (well, I could have, if I got rid of my pool table, but that's out of the question!).

I'm thinking of using open grid benchwork, the lower support will have wheels to make it moveable, and the whole layout can be rotated into vertical position when needed. My earlier track plans were shelf layouts around the walls (check out the link in my signature), but if I decide to go with DC in the future it's just a waste of time and money to start building a shelf layout with Märklin AC...

John:
Are you talking about incorporating this layout into my next larger one? That would be great, but this could be my only permanent Märklin Layout. Märklin may offer excellent quality and running reliability, but their track and turnout selection leaves a lot to be desired. Not to mention the center studs (not very realistic) and the prices here in Norway (a 3-way turnout is (IIRC) 600kr/$100)...

I guess I could start over from scratch with DC, and sell everything I have from Märklin, but I want to try it out with the stuff I already have...

I'll work on another plan without all the parallel trackwork and publish it here when I'm done, I totally agree with you about the appearence of the layout.

Dave:
I don't know about Art Cullen, but are you referring to some kind of "loads in-empties out"? That is a great concept I would like to use on my layout, but I haven't yet figured out how to connect tracks from both sides of the layout.

I like this layout a lot. There is a lot of interesting things going on.

This weekend I saw something interesting. On a modular unit, a gentleman had clamped an extension on to his layout. You could do that with a could short storage yards on both your interchanges. They could even fold down to be out of the way. Then when you want to do some serious ops. Like when your friends come over, you attach the staging and each run a side of the layout.

Your layout will benefit from DCC. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it if you are buying something new anyway.

Hi Svein

Whats the availability of good second hand Marklin track like, I don't think I would want to let go of that class of good quality trains if I could avoid it stud contact or not.

Yes I was saying incorporate it into the next larger layout

When a well known US modeller John Allen,got as far as he was going to with his railway if you knew where to look the original 6'x4' layout where it all began was still part of it

sadly Both John and his railway are gone

regards John

I'm not dismissing it, but I'll probably make some minor changes before I'm totally satisfied. The overall track plan will be pretty much the same as it is now, I just want to try out some of the suggestions mentioned above.

I have 4 engines, two of which are Delta/digital control. My ex girlfriend bought me a digital starter set as a surprise gift, complete with tank engine (programmable top speed and acceleration/brake delay, remote controlled couplers and lights), cars and a Mobile Station (Märklin's hand control, not wireless, but with a Master/Slave function to connect another Mobile Station for a second operator). Who can say ex girlfriends are all bad...

One operator on each side with separate staging yards sounds great.

Thanks guys, now I have something to work with!

John Busby wrote:

Whats the availability of good second hand Marklin track like, I don't think I would want to let go of that class of good quality trains if I could avoid it stud contact or not. Yes I was saying incorporate it into the next larger layout When a well known US modeller John Allen,got as far as he was going to with his railway if you knew where to look the original 6'x4' layout where it all began was still part of it sadly Both John and his railway are gone regards John

John: Sorry, I didn't see your post, I was busy replying another post...

I haven't seen much second hand Märklin track for sale here in Norway, only the old M-track system, and I use K-track. There are special track sections available for connecting M-, K- and C-track, but the only places I could use those tracks are inside tunnels or on staging areas. I had a huge box of M-tracks and M-turnouts and gave it away for free, I don't like how they look...

Anyway, the track and turnouts may be expensive, but the biggest problem here in Norway is the limited number of Norwegian models available. Norway is a small country, and there are few if any commercial steam engine models based on Norwegian prototype. Märklin is the main manufacturer of AC engines, and their only Norwegian model is based on a German engine which is to big to fit on my layout. With that said, the Germans left lots of equipment behind after the war, and with a little artistic freedom I can use some of their engines with just another paint scheme...

DC has a lot more to choose from, both in Norwegian and foreign equipment. There are several companies that specialize in making small series of Norwegian prototype models, NMJ (Norsk ModellJernbane / Norwegian Model Railroad) being one of them: http://www.nmj.no

The drawback is that those models come with a rather hefty price tag: http://shop.nmj.no/product_info.php?cPath=23_230_33&products_id=1297&osCsid=f44c67f535c73408d0b3406e5154a591

In the future I might afford a NOK9.500/USD1557 engine (and that's DC, I can't imagine what an AC model would cost)...

Someone mentioned scratchbuilding? It can't be that difficult...

John Busby wrote:

When a well known US modeller John Allen,got as far as he was going to with his railway if you knew where to look the original 6'x4' layout where it all began was still part of it sadly Both John and his railway are gone

I have seen some of his work and it's just fabolous! Could never imagine that there's a 6x4 hidden there somewhere...

Svein:

Many of the old timers here will recall John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid Railroad. His first layout was 3'7" x 6'8" and grew over many years to a basement sized empire that was, or is still the benchmark we all strive to match. If you'd like to read more about John and his incredible talents go to: http://www.gdlines.com/Galleries.html

Good luck with your project.

Jon

I have a Loads-in/empties-out on my 4x8.

I have a pictoral about operating this feature at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/operation/lilo/

I find the center divider works best if it is full length making the layout two seperate scenes, one side rural and the other a more urban environment. Tracks running parallel to the edge won't make a layout look bigger or smaller.

Thank you if you visit

Harold