Layouts and layout building

I've been working on a swing gate drawing plan in 3^rd PlanIt for the layout where I have the main line track crossing the aisle way. Here is the current drawing plan:

I was inspired by the recent MR article and pdf download "Build a swinging gate for easy access" by Gary Hoover.

The article can be found at this link: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1100

 I hope to build this swing gate on Friday.

I built it yesterday as planned!

Here is the final product!

Now, I say final product, but I still need to put down the roadbed and track, and then it will be completely finished.

I did change a few things from the original plan. I used 3" brass door hinges instead of the T-hinges, and I installed the dead bolt lock horizontally as opposed to the vertical position on the original plan. Thanks to all of you who gave me ideas and input into this project!

It was a success!

I recently designed a layout that utilizes a gate/lift-out, but in my applications it should be more like saloon doors that swing both ways. My staging is in another room and with 10 trains running in a session that means going through the gate often.

To me it is not a matter of building a gate to tolerances, it's keeping the gate within tolerances. I've found that with any swinging gate/ door, the weakest link is the screw to wood connection. Just a slight give, and the hinge slips a little in the counter-sink hole and the gate drops a little.

Now I'm theorizing because I haven't actually built one. The problem is not on the far side of the gate from the hinge. Because you can build a "ramp" that guides the gate into position. But the hinge side doesn't have those safeguards. So a 1/32" drop in height and pull to the side can be a problem.

Naturally, the less the gate is used, the less chance this will occur. But like I said, I see my gate getting a lot of use.

Thoughts?

SpaceMouse wrote:

I recently designed a layout that utilizes a gate/lift-out, but in my applications it should be more like saloon doors that swing both ways. My staging is in another room and with 10 trains running in a session that means going through the gate often. To me it is not a matter of building a gate to tolerances, it's keeping the gate within tolerances. I've found that with any swinging gate/ door, the weakest link is the screw to wood connection. Just a slight give, and the hinge slips a little in the counter-sink hole and the gate drops a little. Now I'm theorizing because I haven't actually built one. The problem is not on the far side of the gate from the hinge. Because you can build a "ramp" that guides the gate into position. But the hinge side doesn't have those safeguards. So a 1/32" drop in height and pull to the side can be a problem. Naturally, the less the gate is used, the less chance this will occur. But like I said, I see my gate getting a lot of use. Thoughts?

Space mouse, you hit the screw on the wood there with that one! I've got a swing gate that swings up and down and I do have problems with the hinged side screws moving around within the plywood. I'm thinking of just scrapping it and going with a duckunder.

Driline wrote:

Space mouse, you hit the screw on the wood there with that one! I've got a swing gate that swings up and down and I do have problems with the hinged side screws moving around within the plywood. I'm thinking of just scrapping it and going with a duckunder.

My thoughts would be to try through-bolting instead of screws before you scrap it. Depending on the direction of your plywood, you may have to back-cut the ply on the bench side to create a place to fit the double nuts. On the gate side, you might want to build around the nuts to prevent scratches and torn clothing.

Driline wrote:

SpaceMouse wrote: I recently designed a layout that utilizes a gate/lift-out, but in my applications it should be more like saloon doors that swing both ways. My staging is in another room and with 10 trains running in a session that means going through the gate often. To me it is not a matter of building a gate to tolerances, it's keeping the gate within tolerances. I've found that with any swinging gate/ door, the weakest link is the screw to wood connection. Just a slight give, and the hinge slips a little in the counter-sink hole and the gate drops a little. Now I'm theorizing because I haven't actually built one. The problem is not on the far side of the gate from the hinge. Because you can build a "ramp" that guides the gate into position. But the hinge side doesn't have those safeguards. So a 1/32" drop in height and pull to the side can be a problem. Naturally, the less the gate is used, the less chance this will occur. But like I said, I see my gate getting a lot of use. Thoughts? Space mouse, you hit the screw on the wood there with that one! I've got a swing gate that swings up and down and I do have problems with the hinged side screws moving around within the plywood. I'm thinking of just scrapping it and going with a duckunder.

I agree that would be the most likely point of failure for the swing gate.

In my plan I hope to compenste for this factor and I will be using a 2X4 for the hinges base side and the other side of the hinge will be attached through the plywood and into another 2X4 that is built into the gate portion. Using the 1 1/2" #10 flat head wood screws to attach them as well. This would be a similar situation to wood doors attached to wood door frame construction. 

What about something like a vertical lift bridge insteat of a bascule bridge?

Have fun

SilverSpike wrote:

I agree that would be the most likely point of failure for the swing gate. In my plan I hope to compenste for this factor and I will be using a 2X4 for the hinges base side and the other side of the hinge will be attached through the plywood and into another 2X4 that is built into the gate portion. Using the 1 1/2" #10 flat head wood screws to attach them as well. This would be a similar situation to wood doors attached to wood door frame construction.

At the risk of redundancy, I would suggest using recessed head machines screws through the plywood and the base rather than wood screws into 2 x 4. For one thing, the 2 x4 wood will shrink as it drys. For another, the weight of the 2 x 4 will increase the weight of the gate dramatically.

exPalaceDog wrote:

What about something like a vertical lift bridge insteat of a bascule bridge? Have fun

Dog,

I thought about that, but what do you do with it? If it swings up, you have exposed hinges. If it is a lift out, you have it in your hands as in my case you run to staging, or you have to set it somewhere. If the only time I had to use the gate would be at the beginning of the session, then a lift out would be desirable for a number of reasons. But in out in out sounds like a reason for a gate.

If you are worried about hinge creep (not the one in the movie...), simply glue the screws, and glue the nether side of the hinge plates.  Use latex caulk or Gorilla Glue.  You can even fashion thin plate metal L-bracket retainers and screw them over the hinge plates to help keep them where you want them.  Addtionally, make the span as light as possible.  I used 1.5" styrospan from Dow, and fortified the lower edges with thin wooden framing.  Using Gorilla Glue, Latex, Weld Bond, whatever you have that will work, use longer wood screws.

Another thing to minimize wear and tear, if you must use the device often, is to force yourself to pause and consider what you are doing every time you present yourself to it.  I do this, and very carefully raise and lower it, letting the hinges do what they were meant to do, and supporting the end to be fastened.  A little gentleness and care, lightweight materials, and some glue will have your span working quite reliably for years.

Crandell,

gentleness

The biggest challenge I have in model railroading is my 9-year-old autistic son. I want him to be involved, and he enjoys it. But in every session, he gets to the point when he finds what bugs me--like machine-gunning the double click reversing button on the DT-400, or parking his train on a turnout so that it blocks the other trains, or pushing cars around the tracks without an engine, or...you get it. Gentleness, doesn't fit in the picture--particularly if I make it an issue.

But, I'm becoming convinced that a gate is doable. And when it wears out, I can build another. Thanks. 

selector wrote:

If you are worried about hinge creep (not the one in the movie...), simply glue the screws, and glue the nether side of the hinge plates.  Use latex caulk or Gorilla Glue.  You can even fashion thin plate metal L-bracket retainers and screw them over the hinge plates to help keep them where you want them.  Addtionally, make the span as light as possible.  I used 1.5" styrospan from Dow, and fortified the lower edges with thin wooden framing.  Using Gorilla Glue, Latex, Weld Bond, whatever you have that will work, use longer wood screws. Another thing to minimize wear and tear, if you must use the device often, is to force yourself to pause and consider what you are doing every time you present yourself to it.  I do this, and very carefully raise and lower it, letting the hinges do what they were meant to do, and supporting the end to be fastened.  A little gentleness and care, lightweight materials, and some glue will have your span working quite reliably for years.

Selector,

Very good points on the use of adhesive for a tighter bond. I also know going into this project that the area in question will be getting quite a work out during operating sessions. The key for me too is to treat the swing gate with respect and TLC whenever it is touched.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Ryan, you are most welcome...any time.

Chip, yup, I sure get you, as my last statement in the other thread will attest...I saw if from the start.

I have given El Spano several solid Crandell-reminders over the past five weeks...trust me on this....and it is still like the day it was screwed into place.  If it isn't so much the force and jarring, it is the noise. Always a wake-up call. 

I think I may have to resort to getting down and doing 40 pushups every time I transgress.

Vertical lift

1) Frame it like a door so both sides are connected top and bottom.

2) The bridge lifts straight up with guides on both ends, rigid frame keeps guides alligned

3) The bridge lifts up to say seven feet to form a true duck under, not the usual craw under.

Have fun 

exPalaceDog wrote:

Vertical lift 1) Frame it like a door so both sides are connected top and bottom. 2) The bridge lifts straight up with guides on both ends, rigid frame keeps guides alligned 3) The bridge lifts up to say seven feet to form a true duck under, not the usual craw under. Have fun

Dog,

You are a genius.

What if you combined the lift up with a swing gate. If you put a rod vertically through the hinged side of the layout, you could lift out the section up until the a second rod was cleared then the gate would swing. You bring it back until the second rod drops back in and you set it down in place--locking both ends of the bridge.