General Discussion (Model Railroader)

The 11 Myths of Model Railroading

#1 – Zero maintenance layout (2200 sq ft layout) – You can’t maintain a large layout by yourself
#2 – DCC 8 amp boosters and welding engine wheels of the engine derails
#3 – Track Cleaning – Never again!
#4 – Reverse Loops – Using a toggle switch with DCC
#5 – Not removing ties on flex track
#6 – IDC connectors - 3M scotch locks/Suitcase connectors for track wiring-NEVER
#7 - The Rolling Stock Truck Tuner tool & why do you need one
#8 – Soldering Track Joints
#9 – Homasote Expansion vs Wood
#10 – DCC and you have to modify the turnouts – YOU DON”T
#11 – Homasote Cost – making a mess when cutting – You Don’t have to make dust when cutting

PLW the MRR Myth Busters – #9 - The Myth is:

Homasote expands during the summer and shrinks in the winter


This one is a Bust as it is not the Homasote that is swelling it is the wood underneath.

I have problems with the layout changing in Western PA in the summer and my swinging bridge at the room entrance swells up so much that it is a real tight fit in summer and a loose fit in winter.

Now if the Homasote was the cause of this problem then the bridge (which is made entirely of wood) would work smooth all year around and the Homasote would be rubbing the Homasote on the solid part of the layout.

I had a problem when I first began building my layout and did not have the dehumidifier set up yet and the wood and Homasote sheared the glue off. In other works the wood expanded so much that the glue left loose from the Homasote. Needless to say I got the dehumidifier running!

>>>All of these techniques have been proven on a HO scale home layout with over 15 scale miles of mainline track and has over 2800 feet of track (42 scale miles) total in place, so far. The layout hosts bi-weekly Operations and yearly OPTUD’s (OP Till U Drop) 12 hour sessions and has had up to 40 operators at some of these sessions. The layout runs Digitrax DCC Radio. All of these so called MRR Myths have been Busted as this layout has been in operation for over 5 years and we have proven these over and over again.<<<

BOB H – Clarion, PA

Who uses homosote anymore? It went the way of brass track and wide hood Athearns and horn hooks

QUOTE: Originally posted by CurtMc Who uses homosote anymore? It went the way of brass track and wide hood Athearns and horn hooks

It is still available, and although not used as much as in previous years, maybe, it still has its fans, even here on this forum.

Who uses Homosote? Probably people who can't get foam.

Foam? Who in their right mind would use a produce in the open that is designed to be placed behind drywall where the firecode says it should be?

Magazine articles promoting it's use out in the open and not behind drywall on model railroads are, in my opinion, not doing anyone a favour.

I can think of no firecode that prohibits the use of extruded foam on a model railroad, or anywhere else that it might prove useful. There are plenty of other hazardous materials in the typical home that are not prohibited by code, such as wood furniture, synthetic coverings on counters, shower curtains, upholstery, cushions, drapes, vinyl in window blinds, wiring insulation, composite wood products and the adhesives in cabinetry, rugs, underlay, toothbrushes, combs, and many others items that contain plastics, stabilizers, and any number of other products that will vapourize in the right circumstances and make egress of a burning home difficult.

Since you asked, I use Homasote, and plan to continue to do so as long as it is available. I have some foam and would give it to anyone who wants it because I didn't like it. Whatever you get used to, I guess, and I hate those little plastic beads. Also, lighter and flimsier is not necessarily better in my book. I can actually lean on Homasote and NOT leave an elbow mark.

Most building codes do in fact require extruded foam insulation be separated from the living space by 1/2" of drywall. It's stamped right on the foam sheets.

I have used Homasote in the past. And after my experiances with laying track on foam, I will use Homasote again on my next layout. I laminated Homasote to 1/4" plywood, and never had any problem with the Homasote swelling or delaminating from the plywood.

Nick

QUOTE: Originally posted by nbrodar Most building codes do in fact require extruded foam insulation be separated from the living space by 1/2" of drywall. It's stamped right on the foam sheets.

That's right: on foam that's part of the STRUCTURE of the house. That's because once foam gets burning, it's almost impossible to put out, and because of all the hazardous fumes it emits. If all foam in a house was required to be covered by 1/2" drywall, we'd be walking and sitting on the stuff!

QUOTE: PLW the MRR Myth Busters – #9 - The Myth is: Homasote expands during the summer and shrinks in the winter This one is a Bust as it is not the Homasote that is swelling it is the wood underneath. I have problems with the layout changing in Western PA in the summer and my swinging bridge at the room entrance swells up so much that it is a real tight fit in summer and a loose fit in winter. Now if the Homasote was the cause of this problem then the bridge (which is made entirely of wood) would work smooth all year around and the Homasote would be rubbing the Homasote on the solid part of the layout. I had a problem when I first began building my layout and did not have the dehumidifier set up yet and the wood and Homasote sheared the glue off. In other works the wood expanded so much that the glue left loose from the Homasote. Needless to say I got the dehumidifier running!

And you're again incorrect. Homasote is PAPER, and is less dense than wood. Less dense and porus equals lots of places for moisture to accumulate, making the material swell when it's humid. Homasote DOES suck up moisture, like a sponge. I worked in a lumber yard as a teenager, and have seen bundles of the stuff (left outside by our highly skilled teamster fork operators) explode like Jiffy-Pop.

The only reason that homasote won't expand is when you seal it, preferably with latex paint or white glue. The water-based material will infuse into the homasote (it's porus, remember?), filling all it's little voids with non-porus glue. Once sealed, homasote CAN'T expand. That's wy modelers are also getting decent results with MDF; it's wood chips that have been sealed in a glue matrix

For my money, I'll take 2" extruded polyurethane foam. It's stronger, easier to carve, and faster to work with than homasote or hardshell, and cheaper too (once you start factoring EVERYTHING that goes onto the top of a hardshell and L-girder layout)

Have to agree with Ray..... When the homasote is sealed it won't expand...

I like using Homasote on my home layout, it can be contoured for a road bed and makes a solid base to lay track on. We used foam at our club and will never do that to lay track on again. Foam is fine for scenery work and that's about it.

I see we are once again propogating the myth of foam being a totally deadly substance. Unfortunately I did not save the link, but I did print out the MSDS for the pink extruded foam stuff (which is what I used in my layout) and the stuff is no more harmful than a million other products we use daily, and in fact less so than many other model railroad products we don't even think twice about.
It is also darn near impossible to light on fire, at least at temperatures that would not first set any wood used in the construction on fire. Someone has to have the link to the web page where many tests were conducted to prove this. Even a hot soldering iron - melted a hole in the foam and fell to the floor before setting anything on fire.
Do you keep plans, reference books, and magazines around your layout? That stuff is more likely to catch fire than extruded foam insulation board.
If we're going to bust myths here, let's bust this one too.

--Randy

Edit: here's an MSDS for the Owens-Corning Fomular 250: http://intranet.risd.edu/envirohealth_msds/ID/OwensCorningFoamular250.pdf

It's a PDF so you need some sort of PDF view to read. Take note of the ignition temperature.

The site with the burn tests was a model railroad related site, but I can't find it.

Randy, I remember that thread also.

QUOTE: "and I hate those little plastic beads."

Virginian, that is not the stuff that we are talking about. If I recall correctly, thats the stuff that does burn (the beaded foam products). You know the stuff they for use for all kinds of packaging and make coffee cups out of, etc. Most threads on the topic have again and again said to stay away from that stuff on layouts. The stuff that most are using on layouts is the extruded foam insulation, I have several friends who are firemen and that know that I use extruded foam on the layout. These guys are quick to tell me if I have anything that is dangerous around the house. They have never said that there is any problem using extruded foam on the layout. I am much more worried about some of the other toxic chemicals that we use in the hobby.

I do not use homosote on my layout for several reasons. All of which have been brought up many times before. But then, Its your layout! Use anything you like. There are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak.

Wow, even within a thread on a single myth we find that our hobby is riddled with them.

Thanks for the link, Randy.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker I see we are once again propogating the myth of foam being a totally deadly substance. Unfortunately I did not save the link, but I did print out the MSDS for the pink extruded foam stuff (which is what I used in my layout) and the stuff is no more harmful than a million other products we use daily, and in fact less so than many other model railroad products we don't even think twice about. It is also darn near impossible to light on fire, at least at temperatures that would not first set any wood used in the construction on fire. Someone has to have the link to the web page where many tests were conducted to prove this. Even a hot soldering iron - melted a hole in the foam and fell to the floor before setting anything on fire. Do you keep plans, reference books, and magazines around your layout? That stuff is more likely to catch fire than extruded foam insulation board. If we're going to bust myths here, let's bust this one too. --Randy Edit: here's an MSDS for the Owens-Corning Fomular 250: http://intranet.risd.edu/envirohealth_msds/ID/OwensCorningFoamular250.pdf It's a PDF so you need some sort of PDF view to read. Take note of the ignition temperature. The site with the burn tests was a model railroad related site, but I can't find it.

You're probably thinking about this site: http://www.scaletree.com/foamsafety.html

Andre