Small Industry, Many Hoppers - 2

Thanks for the post. I took a look around the 'hood there. Looks like a lot of activity.

nice, i might have to model that, thanks for that

What hoppers would sand be moved in please... any available, ones built for the job or cascaded coal hoppers...or cascaded ore cars?
I would guess that the answer is "Yes, all of the above" but would someone give some guideleines please.
Thanks in advance.
:-)

Sand is a great industry to model. It sounds silly but the stuff does occur everywhere. Plus, because it's usually so heavy it doesn't get carried far so it can remain quite a small industry (compared to coal, phosphates and metals).
On my old patch we had both open cast/quarry and mines for a very specific sand used in metal casting. The stuff got everywhere around where the cars stood but didn't blow far.
The quarry still working had a lead track with about a 4% grade with a real tight curve across a road right at the foot. Just to add interest the grade remained parallel to and right up against the main track and dived between that and a factory building. At the bottom it emerged between the building and the maintrack bridge over the road.
There was a hurricane fence type gate at the bottom which swung out of a little of the road.
Rules for working said that cars were towed in and pushed out. Moves weren't allowed until they could shove straight out onto the maintrack in one go going up and until the road traffic was definitley stopped going down.
I heard of cars sitting in the dirt around the yards down there but never coming off on the curve. If they had come off they'd have landed in another building.
Because of the grade and curve cars were worked in and out in small cuts... two or three at a time I think... Although empties weighed less they went in in small numbers because of the curve... i.e. so that the loco wouldn't get accelerated down the grade by the weight behind.
The lead was worked by BR shunters (08 or 09) because they had to come out onto the main. There were signs around the bottom prohibiting them from working further and others prohibiting the quarry locos working up the grade.
Great thing about sand pits is that you almost always get critters... usually several in various stages of disrepair. I imagine that the sand doesn't do them any good.
Oh yes, the quarry lines helpfully went "off scene" through a very tight tunnel under an adjacent rail line.
Hope this gives some useful ideas.
Have fun :-)
Thanks for the original post :-) :-)

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Foster What hoppers would sand be moved in please

In OKC, 2 years ago, short two bay open cars.

hmm definatley going to consider a sand quarry, it seems very interesting to model, lots of buzz, in a small scene

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Foster What hoppers would sand be moved in please

Here in Michigan sand is moved in 100 ton 2-bay covered hoppers. In HO, the new Athearn ACF 2970 covered hopper coming out soon is close and probably good enough, but not exact.

Adding to what cnw8835 has said, in northern Michigan at the Yuma Sand Mining Operation south of Traverse City, MI., sand is mined from an open pit and conveyored to ground level, washed, treated with a pine oil to allow the floating off of non-silica materials (twigs, insects) and then dried in a large tumbling furnace similar to what is found in cement production. It is then conveyored to covered hopper cars (many times still hot) and then transported to foundries near Detroit or Toledo and used as casting sand.

The unusual thing about Yuma is that it took back the spent casting sand from the foundries (very black in color) and it was buried in the same pit as it came out of. It was extremely high in phenol, which gave kind of a unusual odor. Two front end loaders worked in the pit which was about two hundred yards by two hundred yards square and moved it to the conveyor belt.

While working on my MS degree in chemistry/biology, I had the chance to work for a environmental consulting firm. It was our job to place testing wells around the perimeter of the Yuma operation to test for phenols in the ground water surrounding the facility.

Thinking about that quarry spur got me thinking…

I’ll never get round to this so someone else might like to use the ideas.

Sorry I can’t do pics or diagrams… maybe that will leave people more free to come up with their own version.

Okay, first of all the original…

At the bottom of the grade the curve started before the road which meant that the corner of the building was shaped to fit with the track’s curve. The track then ended up in the far side of the pavement for a distance before crossing back to the side it had come from. Out of pavement there were then several loops and a long spur wandering off to various blind tracks and a loop through a single road loco shed for two engines… so one lived inside and the other was always outside. Weird. Things like fuel tanks and drums were all over the place often in brambles and/or long thin grass.

Back at the curve there were all sorts of road signs (for the bridge width and height) and RR signs (for several generations of who owned what… sometimes on the same post).

To use this for a model…
You might…
1. Do it as described
2. The far side of the second mainline a huge conveyor brought sand out of the pit to an enormous square hopper which fed cars pushed under it on two roads. This could be moved the other side of the second main in a model. The quarry critters spent all day working cars under the hopper. BR locos only brought the empties in and took the loads out… in several cuts.
3. With either of the above you could switch back under the first main track.
4. There is no reason why the quarry spur has to fall… you could put it level or rising to a higher level.
5. If your track goes off scene round a corner you could fit any of the above into the otherwise lost space of the corner (making sure that you can still reach things). This would work best with the quarry tracks higher… unless you are doing an exhibition layout to be seen from the outside. To save coupling in the far corner I would put a loco shed there on a blind spur (or two). If you want to hide the exit of the main track you could run an out-of-use track, a road way or an conveyor over it… or any combination. IF you cross the main with a working track at a high level you get a problem that the high level is nearest you on the off scene tracks… You could have a far working track and the near track dead. Great thing if you can work open hoppers off scene is that you can load/unload them out of sight. Covered hoppers are so much easier #61514;.
6. In the right time frame you could have steam locos working the quarry…
Hope this is useful

By the way...
If you use steep grades don't forget to allow transition VERTICAL curves so that your cars/locos don't ground going in/out... or restrict the cars that are allowed over the spur.
I recalled this thinking about the fun you can add putting various diggers into the scene. A lot of quarries had a part canibalised, part rusted digger rotting away in the weeds. then there's new diggers that may come in as big loads on flats or centre depressed cars... if the spur will let them in... (or you could use a wrecking crane to lower them from the main track...)

All of the hoppers that were there (along with all I have seen at Halliburton and Dowell Schlumberger) are covered hoppers. They are 2 bay and short 3 bay.

I would think that the following cars the are probably suitable.

Athearn 2 bay Center Flow hopper
Athearn PS-2 covered hopper
Atlas 2 bay covered hopper
Atlas Trainman 3560 cubic foot Center Flow hopper
Detail Associates 2 bay Center Flow hopper (if you can find any)
Walthers 2 bay covered hopper
Walthers PS-2 covered hopper

Of course the prototypes for some of these cars are approaching the end of their revenue service. Also, for earlier times, it appears that Bowser and Eastern Car Works (it seems like there were one or two other manufacturers also) make suitable models.

When I was at there this week, I noticed a 3 bay, probably about 3560 cubic foot, Center Flow hopper that appeared to have Oglebay Norton's logo on it (something rare these days).

Also, Dowell Schlumberger used to ship in sand from Minnesota, in their 2 bay Center Flow hoppers (DSIX reporting marks, no logo). According to Oglebay Norton's website, they ship the sand for the Bakersfield area in from Brady, TX. So it can travel from somewhere relatively far away.

QUOTE: Originally posted by David Foster What hoppers would sand be moved in please... any available, ones built for the job or cascaded coal hoppers...or cascaded ore cars? I would guess that the answer is "Yes, all of the above" but would someone give some guideleines please. Thanks in advance. :-)

I'd say pretty much any kind of covered hopper would be good for hauling the sand. Covers are important because nobody wants rain or cat poop in their sand. I speak from experience on this one. [(-D]