Electronics and DCC

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate More "which DCC system?" questions on the forum lately, so time to resurrect this puppy again. [swg]

Until there is a DCC system in every house (and a chicken in every pot) this one will live on!

I just recently bought an NCE PowerCab system to use for offline loco programming.

So I now either own or have owned Lenz, EasyDCC, and now NCE. And so far, I've liked each one better than the last. We'll see on the new NCE.

I am finding the EasyDCC "upper limit" of 8 distinct throttle channels to be an issue and given the vast improvements of NCE's radio reception, plus the $200+ price of EasyDCC's new radio throttles ... I see NCE pulling out front as the radio system I would recommend.

The other issue with EasyDCC is the stationary programming panel. In the days before ops mode programming on the main became popular, this made sense. But now mobile decoder programming on the main with a true wireless system (never need to plug in) narrows you down to just one system: NCE.

I think Zimo does this as well, but that's a cadillac system based on using a PC as the core -- while really cool for flexibility, you pay for that luxury with Zimo. Plus the Zimo system has little penetratrion so far in the US market, which could make support somewhat tough. You can find lots of US NCE users online and if you're lucky, you might even have a few NCE users local to you.

NCE doesn't have the shared channel issue after 8 throttles that EasyDCC has. Once you start sharing channels on EasyDCC, you start getting response delays when you work the throttle, which can be annoying if you want to play the whistle or do some switching. Most EasyDCC users I know who need more than 8 throttles have 5 dedicated channel throttles and the rest of the throttles share 3 channels.

I currently use EasyDCC, but the system is now 6 years old and needing some hardware replacement in both throttles and possibly eventually moving to the newer command station. I'm giving strong consideration to moving to NCE wireless, since I can do that in stages where for a time, I use my current EasyDCC throttles with the NCE system.

I do know EasyDCC's radio reception for the most part has been rock solid, and NCE's radio reception in the past has been iffy. Word is, however, NCE's new and improved receiver and half-wave throttle antenna has completely solved the issue.

Just some of the latest in DCC-land for me.

I've noticed several "starter DCC system" posts so I thought I would update this thread with my latest thinking in this area.

LEARNING DCC ON THE CHEAP
If you check out ebay, you can buy a Bachmann DCC system for about $50. If you are really strapped for cash, and are not sure what DCC system to buy, I think getting a Bachmann system for $50 is a great education into things DCC.

You can't do a lot with a Bachmann system, but for 50 bucks it will get you started and allow you to put some decoders into your locos.

Plan on outgrowing the Bachmann system and getting something else later. But you will learn some of the DCC basics with a Bachmann system and then later you can sell it on ebay and get some of your 50 bucks back -- and you will be knowledgeable enough in things DCC to understand what you really want out of your *real* DCC system.

And while learning DCC with your Bachmann system, you can be saving up for your real system.

NCE POWERCAB -- STATE-OF-THE-ART STARTER DCC SYSTEM
NCE has really scored a home run with their new Powercab starter DCC system. It uses a walkaround command station form factor, and is completely upgradeable to their full Powerhouse Pro system later.

You get a lot of system for a mere $140. The other starter system in this price bracket is the Digitrax Zephyr system, but in my option, the Zephyr now uses a rather dated powerpack form factor. The NCE system uses a walkaround form factor, which makes a lot more sense given the direction of DCC these days.

It used to be you programmed decoders using a stationary programming track, so having a stationary command station in a powerpack form factor made a lot of sense. You could always expand beyond this with walkaround throttles, and use the stationary command station to program decoders on the programming track (Service Mode programming).

But with nearly all decoders now supporting programming on the main (Ops Mode programming), having a handheld command station in a walkaround form factor makes a lot of sense. You can literally go anywhere on your layout and program your locos. You no longer have to drag the loco back to the programming track to program CVs.

NCE's PowerCab system even allows changing decoder addresses on the main, so you hardly ever need use the programming track ever again.

A PERSONAL NOTE ON DCC SYSTEMS
My EasyDCC system also uses a stationary command station form factor, and I'm in the need of upgrading my wireless throttles now as my system ages (it's now 6 years old).

With NCE's release of the PowerCab system, I've taken another look at NCE and am giving serious consideration to moving to NCE so I can have the wireless handheld command station option. I can see more and more cases where I would like to just go find a loco on my 1100 square foot layout and program it right there -- and not have to keep dragging locos back to the programming track.

My stationary command station prevents me from doing this. And with the advent of sound decoders and fancier decoder functions, I'm getting more interested in perhaps some simple programming on the main while operating.

As a result, I've seen the stationary command station form factor as a real hindrance to the direction DCC is going and see NCE's PowerCab starter system as a stroke of genious as to the ideal form factor for a DCC system. Enough so that I'm even considering moving to NCE as my DCC system of choice.

Just finding this Forum Clinic again and giving it a bump.

I'm just getting back into modeling, and I know I will be moving to DCC in the future, so this is a great help.

However, I'm hoping to go in a slightly different direction in the short term so I can spend as little as possible for a low-end stop gap until I can afford the better DCC systems (and allow a few more years of devlopment.

The 'layout' I'm setting up is primarily for my 3-year old daughter and myself because she likes to run the trains. It's a couple of loops, and any more complicated running will be experiments and one train at a time. So I don't need a full blown DCC system yet, but I do want to play around with some of the capabilities.

What I do need (or really want) is sound, and extra running features and all would be nice.

So I'm hoping that QSI releases their after market decoder very soon because I'd like to start with with their Quantum Engineer controller. It's not DCC, it just lets you do lots of DCC-like things with DC. And it's only $60 (list).

I only have 7 locomotives right now that I need decoders for, and the QSI ones fully support DCC, and are software upgradable (their older generation requires a new chip, but that new chip is software upgradable).

One of the other major benefits is that I can let my daughter run the locomotives with a much lower risk of damage because while the train is running the reverse switch won't reverse the loco. It blows the horn instead. Only when the train is stopped does the reverse switch reverse the locomotive. Right now, of course, she enjoys flipping it regularly.

Anyway, for those just toying with the idea right now, I think this might be a good option. It only works with the QSI decoders, but they seem to be pretty good. Expecially because from what I'm seeing, there are a lot of new developments in the DCC arena and I think we'll see some really interesting systems in the next couple of years.

Randy

And for those in the market for a DCC system, here's this thread resurrected ...

Given the recent threads on buying DCC systems, here's this thread brought back from outer mongolia.

Yes I gotta re-read this one soon.  Did Zimo eventually get reviewed?

CrazyDiamond wrote:

Yes I gotta re-read this one soon.  Did Zimo eventually get reviewed?

No, it did not. I've got their manuals and having read through them it's pretty clear their system is essentially a specialized PC made to run DCC. The big advantage of this approach is almost everything is in software, which makes the Zimo system far more easily upgradable than any other DCC system on the market. It also makes Zimo far more expensive than any DCC system on the market -- so if you have the bucks, Zimo is an option worth looking into.

For people looking for a good starter system under $200, Zimo isn't it, unfortunately. A Zimo starter set is over $700.

The other thing with Zimo is its user interface has a characteristic European feel, which is somewhat reminiscent of Lenz. The interface is European "electronic tech" in feel with lots of clever buttons and features to do things, but it's all kind of overwhelming. My operators prefer simple and obvious -- give them a big throttle knob, forward and reverse, a normal 0-9 keypad for entering loco addresses and pressing a few function keys and they're happy. Forget special secret meaning "*", "#" or "shift" keys. The NCE knobby throttles are a great example of this kind of blatently obvious interface design. The NCE throttles have two clearly labeled buttons "Select loco" and "horn", plus "FWD" and "REV". Now how much more obvious can you get than this?

Zimo goes *way* beyond this in their throttles, with lots of clever techy labels on their multi-function buttons since they've got so many features. Just reading the manual to figure all this out will make your head spin.

So Zimo is cool and very powerful, but their user interface is not something you can teach your new operators in a few  minutes. Their system is the Cadillac of the DCC market, and priced accordingly.

I've just finished reading through this thread for the first time. Maybe the next time through, it will take less than 2 days! LOL

I appreciate the effort that has gone into this, the research and time spent writing and editing. The reviews on consisting/MU'ing were very helpful. However, they have been limited to basic low-end starter sets. I have looked at these sets, but felt that I wanted to jump right to a full-blown system instead. Is it possible for anyone who has used more advanced systems, like the Digitrax Chief or Super Chief, or the NCE Power-cab, to do the same kind of review of ease-of-use studies? I would like to see how easy it is to use the Digitrax DT400R or DT4R or the throttle for the NCE Power Cab (Joe's potentially new favorite :-)  ).

Also, Joe mentioned the form factor and this is new to me. I understand the sit-on-a-table-somewhere form factor, what is a walkaround form factor? Does each throttle have its own command station built into it? How does this all hook together? What impact does this wiring have on the wiring which needs to be done? I have to admit I have not read anything on the kind of bus that NCE uses, I am most familiar with LocoNet and think it is pretty cool and straight-forward.

Thanks for all this great information.

FT

The NCE ProCab does allow you to unplug the throttle and move to another station and plug back in and resume control. The difference is that the ProCab is also the command station, which means you can also program and set CVs anywhere on the layout as well. Joe's term "walkaround form factor" is just another way of saying "mobile command station".

There's nothing mysterious about the wiring for the NCE system, it's just a daisy-chain of 6-conductor RG-12 telephone cable to each plug-in station. The power buss is the same as you would have for any system.

NCE does also have "utility throttles" or cabs that can control a couple of trains, but can't do the programing.

modelmaker51 wrote:

The NCE ProCab does allow you to unplug the throttle and move to another station and plug back in and resume control. The difference is that the ProCab is also the command station, which means you can also program and set CVs anywhere on the layout as well. Joe's term "walkaround form factor" is just another way of saying "mobile command station". There's nothing mysterious about the wiring for the NCE system, it's just a daisy-chain of 6-conductor RG-12 telephone cable to each plug-in station. The power buss is the same as you would have for any system. NCE does also have "utility throttles" or cabs that can control a couple of trains, but can't do the programing.

Actually, Jay, you are mostly right.  The NCE Pro Cab can be unplugged and plugged.  But it must and can only do that when used with the Powerhouse Pro command station.  The Pro Cab is only an "intelligent" throttle.  The Powerhouse Pro command station houses the brains and booster.

On the other hand, the NCE Power Cab is the one that is the command station, throttle, and booster all rolled up into one.  If you disconnect the Power Cab from the power panel, it will shut down the entire system.

However, with the advent of the Smart Booster, the Power Cab can now become a full-fledged walkaround system and be plugged and unplugged into/from either the Smart Booster or PCP (power) panel - without shutting down your layout.

Tom

Looks like it's time to give this thread a bump, since several people have been looking into purchasing a system.

Thanks to everyone for taking their time responding on this topic. For me it has been very informative and entertaining! It’s been 30 + years since I was involved in model railroading and am just now able to get back into it.  Have things changed! Anyway I was leaning toward the MRC (had several MRC throttle packs….back in the day) but now I’m again undecided as this thread has really made me aware of the options available out there.

Thank you all!!!!

MO

MRC Prodigy

I just got one for Christmas, and it will be a while before I get it up and running, but I wanted to add some information.

I've been considering returning it for the NCE Powercab, particularly due to a few of the shortcomings of the system. However, I like the knob instead of the dial, and I like the information that's presented on the screen versus the NCE.

The two major issues that I felt the system have are being addressed. The wireless throttles are being released soon, and I spoke to MRC and they said they also have a computer interface in the works.

So the end result for me is that I'm going to keep the MRC for now. I really like the design of the controllers, and it sounds like they are putting together a comprehensive system.

Randy