General Discussion (Model Railroader)

With my old fleet of Tyco and AHM cars, I've found the McHenry couplers work well. Especially on my heavyweight pass cars. The Mchenry is the only coupler that would snap right in and is long enough. The Kadee's work alot of the time, with the right adapter box. I think its the Talgo type usually.
Sometimes nothing worked right. Usually because of coupler heigth. As an example, I have two AHM clam shell covered gondolas that wound up being way to low in coupler heigth after replacing the couplers into the truck pockets. In the end, I replaced the trucks with Proto 200 trucks, and body mounted the couplers with Kadee couplers.

I just can't give up on some of my cars that I have had since childhood.

Texas Z, See, I told you kaydee eh! There is this huge wave of kaydee or nothing, I have heard nothing but praise for Sergent couplers, at last , some one has designed a coupler that actually looks like a coupler, I hate to admit it but Lionel had it figured out a hundred years ago, it's the first innovation in an HO coupler in 40 years, and notice the resistance to it, can't figure it out.

I've used several different brands of knuckle couplers with each offering some advantage over the others in one way or another. McHenry's have been appreciated for ease of installation, at least on my IHC passenger cars. They are very easy to remove and replace. Accumate couplers seem pretty sturdy and were included in some of the kits I've built. They are plastic, but use a split coupler design that eliminates the need for a "plastic finger" or a "metal coil spring" and for that reason have a slightly more realistic appearance. The Kadee's I've used have been very dependable and have never caused me any grief. I have a set of Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight passenger cars with the EZ Mate couplers, and these were already installed for me. They are, however, the ones that have caused me the most grief, because one of these cars is the one that has uncoupled most frequently for me. Just my .02!

tsasala
heres an easy way to convert to good trucks and body mounted couplers like the prototype.
pop the trucks out, get a 3/16 drill bit and carefully drill out the monting holesyou can go all the way through or stop at the weight. get some 3/16 plastic tube SUPER glue this into the holes and let cure fully, cut off at bolster level. then get some 1/8 palstic tube and insert into the 3/16 tube, if the 1/8 doesnt fit take a 1/8 drill bit and carefull open till the 1/8 does fit. SUPER glue this into the 3/16 and cut off about 1/4in from the top of the 3/16 tube. get kadee draft gear boxes and drill all the way through the car floor add your favorite brand of knuckle coupler to the box add better trucks with 2-56 screws or even self tapping screws will work.
there is an article in model railroader by stephen priest where he did a tyco flat car but used modeling putty instead of the way i just described. had a friend show me that trick

hope this helps

tom

Thanks Tom. I'll give that a try when the time comes. Gotta lay the track first!

Well, all of my rolling stock and locomotives have Kadee's on them weather they be #5's and #58's as the most common. Now I use the metal series rather than plastic because Kadee does make both and they look identical. The only way you can tell is by trying to bend them by hand. Now I run everything prototypical from the get-go. I've started buying CV new switch kit's with DW's white cast frog and point sets. I mean down the last detail. Now with Kadee's all we use is metal and I have broken a few of them under load and if it was at a train show early in the morning's before anyone else got there and one broke you could hear the knuckle shoot off across the building and hit the light fixtures. Now I ran across these new "Sergent coupler's" on the net and just from what I see I am impressed. I have seen coupler's from other unknown companies that also worked just like the real thing but they weren't as strong as Sergents looks. They had a one piece "yolk" with the knuckle a .05 nail and a bar that locked it. It was the same as the real thing where when you had to change a broke/cracked knuckle you had to pull the pin out of the yolk that goes threw the knuckle to hold it in place but on these little no name coupler's the hole's in the yolk were weak because they were to thin. Sergent has the pin already casted in and the housing/"yolk" is consisted of two half's that are put together. I am going to buy a set and put them to a full test and if they can hold up then I'll start swapping all my equipment over to Sergents. I'm not using them yet and I already have great confidence in them because they are the same design as the prototype and that design is proven extremely strong other wise they wouldn't be using them. On top of this they are as close to "real" as it get's in the modeling world and would be great for those who are picky about being prototypical. See we run train's at times from 40 car's to 80. At other time's when we have a bigger space we can anywhere from 100 to 270 car's. The highest we've been was 296 car's without mid train helpers but coupler's started snapping then right around the rear locomotive. I'm a bit disappointed because one club that hold's the world record for the longest train was like over 450 cars using Kadee's. I can't go that if they keep breaking. Oh, on a last note the knuckle spring's are a pain in the waazoo to replace when they decide to pop out and "take off."[8][^]

I bought some of the Sargent couplers a few years ago to experiment with. They were in 'kit' form and take some time to get them assembled. I see they now sell 'assembled' couplers. They look great, but they have to have the knuckle 'face' open to couple(just like the real ones), and the 'gathering' range is not real good. The auto coupling of the current Kadee/McHenry couplers is a nice feature we have that the prototype does not have! I have the Sargents in a box and will use them on a 'contest' model if I get around to it.

Jim Bernier

I use either Kadee #58s with McHenry MCH31's (scale sized lower shelf) on my tank cars (mostly Atlas corn syrup).

They look good, they work well.

Regardless of the type of coupler you switch to, GET A COUPLER HEIGHT GAUGE!!. You'll be amazed at how many fewer problems you'll have if all of your equipment is properly gauged. I know it's been said before, but it bares repeating.

I have been using Kadee No.5 couplers for almost 25 years, especially since they used to be the only game in town. I have recently started using the newer and more prototype-looking Kadee No. 58 in all of my new equipment. I always replace my Accumate, Bachman, or McHenry couplers because I run prototype length trains and the plastic couplers just can't handle the stress and weight. I had not heard of the 'Sargent' couplers until reading some of the posts in this topic. I will have to check them out as I am always interested in a better looking OR better operating coupler.

As far as height problems, Kadee also makes several couplers with offsets to help with cars that are either too high or too low. I've used them on several occasions to help with the heights on my older AHM, Tyco, Life-Like and Bachman cars.

Some technical considerations:

The first thing to understand is that Kadees (and anything designed to be compatable with them) are grossly oversized -- what Tony Koestler once called "boxing gloves" -- so the first thing you have to ask yourself, BEFORE you spend an arm and a leg on couplers, is whether you will be satisfied in ten years or so with oversized couplers. I failed to ask myself that question, now have about 600 + freight cars, and it is too late to switch. So, Kadees it is; but, if I were to do it all over again, I might (no, probably would) go to a closer-to-scale type coupler. In the time I made the switch, there were not many other options; however, I have known modelers who got around the scale problem and still used Kadees -- they just used the HOn3 couplers for HO standard gauge. This proved a good solution, except that one does have to adjust the "glad hand" uncoupling levers on all the cars.

All right, back at the horse farm: Installing what then were known as "5&10s" -- today's 5 -- was easy with an Athearn car, since the pocket in these cars was a perfect fit, and the little metal clip readily snapped right on. I found I had to CAREFULLY and SLIGHTLY bend the clip's sides inward BY BOWING THE CLIP SLIGHTLY IN THE CENTER -- to keep the clip from falling off under load somewhere out on the pike (this also helped facilitate movement of the coupler inside the pocket). The clips are very brittle and break easily, so my warning about CARE needs to be repeated.

Not that I would advise you to do this today anyway: The clips are CRS, which rusts like a bear. Over the years, what I found was that the clips would rust in humid air, lose the smoothness of their interior surfaces, and hang up the coupler. Solution: Systematically, as the problem has arisen, I have cut off the Athearn pockets and replaced them with the plastic Kadee pockets, WHICH MOST FORTUNATELY I NEVER THREW AWAY!!!!!.

That's a hint, son.

I was never a fan of Tyco except that I always loved their tank cars. I have some of the older cars with the metal frame and plastic tank. These cars have talgo trucks, and removing these so that I could mount on the truck body was too much of a headache. Solution was to install a special Kadee coupler made for these cars, Kadee # 9. They can be screwed right to the talgo mount.

I knew I would use a lot of them, so I searched around and found someone offering Kadees in bulk lots. I picked up about 50 packages of 5&10s for $2.55 each. Still have some of them unopened; never regretted it. Avoid buying retail!

Something else to consider, depending on your frustration level: Kadee # 4s. Unlike the 5&10, the 4 operates internally against a centering spring, which of course YOU have to install. This is a real pain in the posterior, especially since one MUST include the little pellet inside the spring to keep it from failing under load. The draft gear box is metal, so there can be the added difficulty of conductivity problems. This coupler is the granddaddy Kadee and originally was manufactured to go on old Athearn, Roundhouse, and similar "classic" kits; it mounts with two 00-90 screws through the sides of the draft gear, except on old Roundhouse, where the pocket already was cast into the car.

Why go to all the trouble when a 5&10 just drops in? Answer: REAL couplers have a similar design and do indeed pull out slightly when under load. This is what is meant by "slack" in a train -- what happens is that, as brakes are applied or the throttle cranked, the couplers either pull in or pull out, and of course this all adds up when you have 60-100 cars behind your big boy. On a real railroad, this "slacking" quality is an essential feature -- if a big boy tried to start a train without it, the cars in front immediately would be pulling on the cars in back, and the couplers would break left and right. It was the capacity of a steam locomotive in effect to start one car at a time which enabled the entire train to move at all, and this effect can be duplicated with a 4 and not duplicated with a 5&10.

Something to think about.

Now: how to get those itty bitty springs in there! I found the easiest way to manipulate the little *&%^*&%s was to line everything up and use either an Exacto knife or a surgical scalpal to make the final compression for installing the spring (in this, I did NOT follow the instructions which come with the packet). With some practice, I got to the point where I only rarely lost a spring. But, you probably will need a jeweler's loop to line everything up.

Most important: Make certain ahead of time that all flash and burrs have been removed from the couplers (regardless of what number you use), since even a small burr can hang up operation. And understand that Kadee recommends moly-based dry lubricant for a reason, so follow Kadee's advice here. Unfortunately, I found their plastic "Grease-em" tube to be not very durable, and after it had split along the sides repeatedly, I finally gave up, cut it open, and poured the Grease-em into a glass vial formerly home to some red litmus paper. This turned out to be a "good" failure -- now my practice is to deburr and assemble the coupler, then take the jeweler's screwdriver and dip it into the vial. Pull out some Grease-em and steer it into the pocket; move the coupler shank from side to side several times to burni***he lubricant in; finally, turn the pocket upside down atop the vial so that the extra lubricant goes back with the supply. Install the coupler, and you're ready to go.

One problem I did have with Kadees occasionally was that the coupler head would separate from the shank. The metal they use appears to be some kind of zinc composite, which I suspect becomes brittle, perhaps even cruystalizes over time. This would result in failure of the coupler obliging total replacement. It is a good idea to keep this in mind when installing -- don't do any gluing which cannot be undone. A little extra care here saves headaches later.

Finally, do get a coupler-height gage or make one. Mine is simply a stock Athearn car, since most of my rolling stock is Athearn. Roll the completed car over a turnout or two to insure that the "glad hand" clears all rails, and also test the coupler over a properly placed magnet, to insure the "glad hand" is not too high. Adjust as necessary by carefully employing a pair of needlenose per the instructions which come in the packet.

Now: What to do with all of those horn-hooks?

The horn-hook is known as the NMRA coupler but never actually was sanctioned by the NMRA. Nevertheless, it caught on because it was incredibly cheap to make and allowed a manufacturer to advertise that "trucks and couplers" were included in his kit. Go back to old MRs (Fifties and earlier), and you will notice that, at one time, the modeler was expected to buy his own couplers separately. Of course, nothing has changed, but kit manufacturers at least today can say that (unusable) couplers are included with their kit.

I found I had a lot of these, since with every kit I bought, invariably I received two "unusable" couplers. I finally found a use for them: Grabbed three Athearn 50-foot gondolas and filled them with "scrap" coupler loads! Their funny shape makes them kind of stick together, so you don't have to glue the load in, and with a lot of them piled in the gondola car, a visitor has to do a double take to catch on as to just what is being hauled away.

Boy this topic really came back from the dead to breath again, but because it did ...

I want to remind everyone of the Kadee #40 series of couplers. They use the same #5 spring and boxes that everyone likes, BUT they come in all combinations of long shank, medium shank, short shank, over shank, and under shank. It really makes converting easier. Much less shimming or putting washers on the truck bolsters.

Lots of good advice above. I have a couple of additions. One: by all means get the KD cplr hight gauge. It not only will show you the right cplr hight and trip pin clearance but you can use the rear of the gauge to determine the proper hight for the car floor. If the car floor just clears the gauge, when you put the KD box and cplr on the car the cplr hight will be dead-on. On Athearn BB cars if you shave off the truck mounting stud and glue the upper half of the KD box (the flat part with the flange at one end and the stud that the cplr pivots on) onto the car bolster you'll have cplrs at the proper hight. Loose the "Talgo", truck mounted cplrs! You'll find it impossible to make a backing movement with them.
When KD's patent expired and all the clones appeared, I tried about 3 different brands. The Intermountain were illiminated immediately because if you made a vigorous joint they broke. The other two wouldn't stay coupled. I don't know if they bent. I always figured that the slippery plastice they're made of caused them to slip by when under stress. (My standard frt train length is 50 cars) I also had trouble with dependable delay functioning which I use a lot Back when the horn/hook cplr first came out there was something approaching a civil war between those who thought everbody should adopt the NMRA design for uniformity's sake and those who wanted to stick with KDs. KD came out with a slogan in their adds that said it all. "The standard by choice".

I've replaced all the old horn-hooks with Kadee #5's and will soon replace all the McHenry's with Kadees. I may switch them all to Kadee #58's in the near future. I found that any plastic knuckle coupler (with spring or with plastic tab) just doesn't work for me. They make great gondola junk loads, as far as I'm concerned.

I was also thinking of using Sergant couplers, but haven't found alot of info about them.

To add to the comments about slack action, when the McHenry couplers came out, cheaper than Kadees, I bought a bunch and outfitted a unit train with them. They have way too much slack action as compared to the kadee #5s that I mostly use. Something to consider along with all the other comments.
I have since gone back to Kadeea, which are better priced since they now have to compete.
I suggest you buy them in large packs. also, you can get them without the boxes which saves money. how many boxes can you use, most equipment comes with cast on boxes anyway.
I saw an ad for the Sergeant couplers which, as I recall, said they were NOT compatable with Kadees and other Kadeee compatable brands. maybe I'm wrong about this.
Bill Williams