entry-level DDC system?

 The Bachmann is about as entry level as you can get. As for slowing down, 2-3 locos is probably the most it can handle, it's only about a 1 amp output. However, do you have more than one set of feeders to the layout that size? The rails and the rail joiners aren't particularly great and reliable conductors of electricity, and the slowdowns are probably the result of insufficient power gettig to the track - voltage drop in the rails/joienrs/wire will get worse the larger the load, so it makes sense that one loco is probably ok. I'll bet if you watch carefully, even when running one loco it noticeably slows down when it gets to the poit furthest from where the feeder wires connect. Add more feeder connections, and tie them together with some reasonably hefty wire - #16 should be good here. Keep the feeders short, only a foot or so. You'll probably see a huge improvement.

 If you want to step up to a system where you cna use the cab numbers as addresses and program some of the useful CVs you may have been reading about, you can't go wrong with either the Zephyr of PowerCab. Both are full featured systems and are generally light years beyond the EZ Command when it comes to features and capabilities. I've had as many as 8 locos, half with sound, runnign on my Zephyr, so it's enough for most home users, but both it and teh PowerCab are fully expandable to top fo the line systems as your layout and needs grow.

                                            --Randy

Swayin

Hi folks,

My first post on this forum; I hope it's not riduclously redundant. My kids and I are working on a 6x16 HO scale layout in the garage - great fun. I picked up a new Bachmann EZ Command system at a swap meet for next to nothing, but notice when I have a couple of engines going at once (especially an older DC model) that all the engines slow way down. Also, if I program my lone DCC-equipped loco to an address other than 3, its performance seems to suffer - gets very slow as well.

Is this a function of the system, which is obviously entry level in the extreme, or  or something I'm not considering? and if it's the system, is there one better suited for us, such as a Digitrax or MRC system?

thanks in advance ...

  to the Forums.

From what I have read on these forums, the Bachman unit is definitely entry level but it should run at least one or two loco's. My favorite is the NCE entry level set, 'cause that is what I bought for just under $150.00. Full retail is $189.00 but I have seen them on line for well under $150.00. They are very easy to use and program decoders with and should run at least 3 or 4 HO scale loco's with no problem.

As for your problem with the engines not running well, do you have at least a #14 or possibly a #12 gauge buss  line from the base unit the full length of the layout. You also need to drop feeders from the track to tie into the buss every 3 to 4 feet using #22 gauge  for drops under about 6 to 8 inches. If you require feeders longer than 8 inches, I would increase the size to #18 gauge. This was what I did.

It may sound like overkill, but Nickle Silver track is not the greatest conductor of electric current. Copper wires are much more efficient and no where near as expensive as track. Also, don't forget that you are sending little packets of information from the controller to the decoders in your engines. The less distance that the information has to travel through the track to the engine, the less chance that the packets of info will degrade and cause problems.

I am sure that some of the other more knowlegable  ladies and gentlemen of these Forums will give you much more and better info than I can.

Good Luck with your layout and again,

Blue Flamer.

 I was a E-Z fan for three year. It ran 3 sound engines with proper wiring. When I need more power I did get a booster. When I went full DCC (at one time one main line was DC and the other line was DCC) I was running 4 engines and I need the extra power.

 Far as the older DC engines, they take 2 to 3 times the power than newer engines. Old Athearn with what was called a Rocket Motor by it self can pull 1 plus amp.

 Don't give up on it just yet and few more details would help.

 All so Welcome to the site!

           Cuda Ken 

I am certain I peeve some users and former users of the Bachmann EZ-Command system when I offer my opinion on this topic when it appears, but I would recommend any starter or basic system except the EZ-Command. 

I didn't know much about it when I purchased mine, silly me, but in my defense, it was recommended by my LHS owner who had four of them he wanted to unload.  I hooked it up and spent maybe 10 minutes with it before I realized that it is a lame duck.  It cannot access the CV's those of us who use DCC engines like to access to customize the acceleration and volumes of individual sounds, for example.  Also, at the time it was limited to 1 amp, and I already owned three sound-equipped locomotives with power-hungry QSI decoders...with more causing me to drool.  One whole amp was woefully inadequate.

The fact is that all the other manufacturers make darned good starter systems....great ones, in fact. So, you could almost flip a coin between any two and find yourself quite content with any one of them.  Just understand up front that they do differ in power handling, in the way they 'feel', including the paddles in your hand, and even the visual displays vary.  You would be well advised to think about two years down the road...will your power needs be met with the purchase you make next week?  Can you add power easily to what you purchase next week if the answer is no?  What would that involve in today's dollars?  Would it make more sense to over-purchase slightly, say by 40-60% of your current estimated power requirements and be confident that you could use this system for the next 10 years?

I am sensitive to how I may tread on the toes of those who are perfectly content with the EZ-Command, but I can't participate in a thread like this one and say it's a good buy in my opinion.  Not with a clear conscience.  It's like a calculator without a multiplication function.

-Crandell

selector

I am sensitive to how I may tread on the toes of those who are perfectly content with the EZ-Command, but I can't participate in a thread like this one and say it's a good buy in my opinion.  Not with a clear conscience.  It's like a calculator without a multiplication function.

-Crandell

Thank you for your honest opinion. It's refreshing NOT to hear the  "Its your layout do what you want" mantra. A lame reply thrown around much too often.

cudaken

 I was a E-Z fan for three year. It ran 3 sound engines with proper wiring. When I need more power I did get a booster. When I went full DCC (at one time one main line was DC and the other line was DCC) I was running 4 engines and I need the extra power.

 Far as the older DC engines, they take 2 to 3 times the power than newer engines. Old Athearn with what was called a Rocket Motor by it self can pull 1 plus amp.

 Don't give up on it just yet and few more details would help.

 All so Welcome to the site!

           Cuda Ken 

Ken, you forgot to mention how many decoders you fried after you added the booster.

Silver Pilot

Ken, you forgot to mention how many decoders you fried after you added the booster.

 Yeah but that was a combination of slightly inadequate wiring and the poor quality of the MRC welding machine, err booster.  Actually, it seems it was a quite nice welder, maybe an EDM power supply, it was just a not so good DCC booster.

                                                       --Randy

rrinker

Silver Pilot

Ken, you forgot to mention how many decoders you fried after you added the booster.

 Yeah but that was a combination of slightly inadequate wiring and the poor quality of the MRC welding machine, err booster.  Actually, it seems it was a quite nice welder, maybe an EDM power supply, it was just a not so good DCC booster.

                                                       --Randy

AND, since the OP mentioned how when he ran multiple engines they ran slower and adding a booster would be a possible solution except Ken's experiences show what happens you unwittingly combine poor wiring, mismatched components and a lack of knowledge of DCC.

Swayin

My first post on this forum; I hope it's not riduclously redundant. My kids and I are working on a 6x16 HO scale layout in the garage - great fun. I picked up a new Bachmann EZ Command system at a swap meet for next to nothing, but notice when I have a couple of engines going at once (especially an older DC model) that all the engines slow way down. Also, if I program my lone DCC-equipped loco to an address other than 3, its performance seems to suffer - gets very slow as well.

Thanks everyone for the great feedback and replies ... much info to chew on, but it seems inevitable that I will at some point move up to at least the Digitrax Zephyr.

 Again, thank you!

 I spent 3 years reading N-scale, Model Railroader magazine and the forums. After all this I bought a Digitrax super empire with radio control. I can be any where in the room and it works. No cables in the way or having to be pointing at a RF terminal.  My lay out is in a 11' by 10' and no direct line of site to a IR port.. So all I can say is, "It's Alive and works great". Worth every dollar. 
So I would say get any system that uses a radio frequency as you get the best of all worlds. The local model railroad club uses the same system but without the radio control. What a pain in the you know what. Cables in the way all the time.

 Well, my E-Z served me well and for $30.00 what can I say. I don't think the MRC Booster was so much of a problem as the poor wiring to the new section. In retrospect I had no problems with the E-Z and MRC booster eating decoders till I added the new section.

 Swayin, more feeders may help. Like I said I was running 3 BLI steam engines with QSI sound with no problems.

 By the way Swayin, do you know what the quarter test is and understand why to use it? If I understood and did the test I would not killed decoders like I did.

 Any system is going to eat decoders if not wired right.

                  Ken

cudaken

By the way Swayin, do you know what the quarter test is and understand why to use it?

nossir, I do not ... enlighten me when you get the chance!

 The quarter test is simple.  You place a quarter on the rails when they are powered.  If the quarter causes a short and makes the DCC system reset itself, then you have good wiring to the track.

Neat. The theory being that if it *doesn't* cause a short, not enough juice is getting to the rails? and should this be done at the point farthest from the connection?

Swayin

Neat. The theory being that if it *doesn't* cause a short, not enough juice is getting to the rails? and should this be done at the point farthest from the connection?

Sort of.  It can be done just about anywhere.  I have been told that once you've installed a new feeder, give it the quarter test.

Swayin

Neat. The theory being that if it *doesn't* cause a short, not enough juice is getting to the rails? and should this be done at the point farthest from the connection?

Not quite.  There is enough 'juice' to run a locomotive even if a short is not caused by the quarter.  The 'theory' is that there is too much drop in voltage between that CS and the spot being tested that the CS can not sense or recognize that there is a short and shut down the system.  Installing more feeders helps resolve the issue. 

Do a internet search for dcc and quarter test - read about it.  That's how people learn.

wow - you almost made it through a whole post without saying something snotty - maybe there's hope for you yet.

Swayin

wow - you almost made it through a whole post without saying something snotty - maybe there's hope for you yet.

 You and I could be come friends Swayin! 

With the to thin of a feeder wire I was fooling the booster in to thinking I need more power.( This part need's to be left to someone that understand electrical stuff.) So when something went wrong the booster did not shut down. When I laid a quarter a cross the track it just made a sizzling sound. Booster did not shut down.  

 In a nut shell, I built a stand a lone bench (now hooked to the main bench) and wanted to test run it. Only wire I had handed was 22 gauge that I was using for feeders. Ran the 22 gauge wire to the main bench blocks (I was DC so I had blocks and not a bus wire) I had power so I thought I was good to go, well DC I might have been, DCC NOT!

 I was clue less what was wrong and BBQ $200.00 in decoders. Part that threw me was there was no dead short, decoders would last say 10 to 20 hours before I let the smoke out!

 Luckily Simon 1966 lives close by and he spotted the problem like that! Ran a heaver wire to the main bench blocks and I have been fine for a year now.

 Your friend, running $$ steam engines again with not derailment problems Ken. 

I vote with Selector.

I started with an EZCommand.  It is now in the junk box under the layout.  I have a Digitrax Super Chief with duplex radio and you could not pay me to go back.