I am trying to solve a track power problem I seem to have and would appreciate some good advice. I have about 300 feet of track in my backyard here in Florida. Every joint is clamped and I have also used electrolitic grease on the joints. The track sits on a pea-gravel base and is fairly level with no big grades.
I have two Bachmann K-27 1:20:3 scale engines and use the Prodigy wireless DCC system with an MRC Powerstation 8. I can run the two engines at one time but quite often the power shuts down. This happens even more so if I add cars to each of the engines. I would like to double-head the engines and/or run two trains at one time without the power dumping. It has been suggested that I divide my track into two blocks and power each. I am not sure this would enable me to double-head and if I run too much power and have a derailment, I could weld the metal wheels to the track. Is there a solution to this or have I made a mistake in buying these big engines?
I'm guessing you dont have enough amperage. It's not a track continuity problem, it's a problem in the amount of current getting delivered. Does the MRC unit really supply 8 amps? I don't know that unit. But I have a 10 amp system and regularly run two or three long trains, with no blocks, so I would think 8 amps would be fine, if it's really delivering 8 amps
What gauge wire are you running to the track? I wonder if you are getting too much resistance in the wiring? You migt try, rather than blocking, upgrading the track power wiring, or maybe adding feeders. But I'm guessing that the MRC is not putting out an honest 8 amps
I run 3 to 4 USA trains F3's or 3 Aristo FA-FB- FA's at a scale 75MPH most of the time up 1.5% grades with my Bridgewerks 15a on 200' of track powered Stainless Steel. I have 12ga main feeders with 18ga jumpers every 10foot. I have more wire then track...... ADD JUMPERS
Dave
The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.
I don't know anything about that particular power supply but it sure sounds as though it is shutting down due to overload. It probably has an electronic over-current "circuit breaker" that opens if too much current is drawn and resets after a period of time when the internal components have had time to cool off. However, it does not sound right that each of your K-27's would draw anywhere near 4 amps on a layout as you've described. Can you check to see how much current is being from the power supply? Let us know what you find, this is interesting.
Walt
Hi I would agree with lownote, try upgrading your power cable going to track if this does not help then look at your power supply any good 10amp supply should fit it but you can always put a few feeds around the layout 1 every 100feet or so Hope this helps
Age is only a state of mind, keep the mind active and enjoy life
After reading responses to my question, I suspect I need a good 10 amp booster. The MRC Powerstation 8 I have is no longer being made. The specs say output is variable 15.5 to 20 volts (no load). Max output 168 watts. I am using low voltage outdoor wire with track feeds every 10 to 12 feet on the main line. It doesn't appear I need blocks. I am thinking about a Bridgewerks 10 amp unit. Should I go for a 15? Dave above says he does fine with his. I appreciate the replies! Thanks!
Branch:
First: Welcome to our little hang out.
Second: This was not covered in the above discussions, unless I’ve gone totally blind. How much "side power" are you using off this power supply (both DC and AC), i.e. light bulbs in your buildings, animated features like Ferris wheels, etc. If you have been diving too many "side power" devices that could easily draw down your amperage output. Take into consideration what "side power" demands are accommodated in your decision to purchase another power supply. If you do move to a bigger power supply, consider driving all your "side power" requirements from the "discarded" unit, thereby not placing any of that type power demand to the new unit, dedicate the new unit completely to your trains.
Tom Trigg
I wonder how much resistance is in that low voltage wire? I really don't know.
If you are just looking for a power supply, I have had excellent luck with the MeanWell line. They make a model called the S-320-24 which puts out 12 amps at 24 volts, and it's a regulated supply, which means it does not sag or slow down if a second loco is added. If you are looking for a 10 amp DCC booster, I've been very pleased with the NCE I'm using.
I am not using any side power.
Hopefully Greg Elmassian will post on this one--he's much more knowledgeable about DCC than I am.
I still think it's that MRC booster, but it's worht checking to see if maybe it's one of the locos. Aristocraft has had problems with it's GP-40 motors drawing WAY too much current, and they are replacing the motors. Is it possible to tell if one of the locos causes the problem?
Are you runnign the smoke genrators?
Just as a comparison, I regularly can run an Aristo Pacific with 4 lighted heavyweight cars up a 4.5% grade, while also running an aristo rs3 and a USAT sw4 in a consist, with 16 cars. That's three locos and I also run a significant number of lights from track power--leds moslty, but still. I think you should be able to run two locos and some cars at 8 amps.
Absolutely. (many good suggestions so far)
If your 2 locos are drawing 4 amps each there is something wrong.
I would suspect that the MRC is not putting out it's rated power. No offense to MRC, but this would not be the first time the ratings were "optimistic".
While low resistance feeders and good joiners are desirable, extra resistance would LOWER the current drawn, not increase it.
So, don't bother with wiring until you solve your primary problem would be my advice.
I would advise getting a meter that can read amps, both DC and AC and DCC... like the RampMeter from Tony's.
Find out how many amps are REALLY being drawn, it will save you time isolating the problem.
Regards, Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
branchfive I am not using any side power.
OK, that eliminates a whole different set of potential problems. I would suggest following Greg's guidance. If you do upgrade, keep the old power supply to dedicate to any future "side power" needs. In my case, a "discarded power supply" drives my automated reversing trolley line (variable 0-24 v DC), constant 24 v AC output drives all the switchs on the mainline, and the constant 24 v DC drives the street lights (5) in the city park.
lownote I wonder how much resistance is in that low voltage wire? I really don't know.
It can't be too much, I went to my junk box treasured mitems chest and pulled out a power supply for an old Malibu light set. It has instructions to not place more than 10 watts (of light bulbs) from 10 ft to 450 ft. The inscribed input/output info was rather distorted but it looked like 0.5 amps of output. I use the same wire to power my rails and have never had a problem (excpt when I broke something, i.e. the input connectors on myswitch/power control panel).
I have a MRC 6200 power throttle. When it over heats the circuit breaker trips and restores when the unit cools. I’m not familiar with your MRC product but it sounds like the same symptoms.
I use an Aristo Ultima 10 amp power supply with an Aristo Train Engineer. I have a 450’ loop and I use Malibu outdoor buried wire. Yesterday I ran an eighteen car train with two USAT F3s and two Aristo U25Bs, that’s eight motors, on 2.5% grades with out problems.
I agree with previous posts and would follow ttriggs suggestion.
Good luck, Rob
Sounds like an out-put problem to me, I use Bridgewerks units also, the TRD-25's.
I run very long consists, currently a double headed Aristo BNSF Dash-9 set, with a Phoenix P-5 sound system too, pushing two 8 watt speakers in the upper screens and two 20 watt speakers in each fuel tank, pulling 62 freigjht cars, that train is about 102ft long, it draws about 10 to 12 amps on about 2% grades. That's 8 motors, four in each engine.
Another consist I run at times is a USA, ABBA Great Northern F-3 set, with a Phoenix big sound 97 system, pushing an 8 watt and two 10 watt speakers, I usually pull up to 18 lighted USA streamline passenger cars, that train is about 65ft long, with all the lights on, it draws upwards of 25 Amps. That is 8 motors also, and as most do know, USA engines are power HOGGS.
I say....Go with as large a power system as you can reasonably afford, than you won't have to worry, as you add to your roster.
Byron
EMPIRE II LINE I say....Go with as large a power system as you can reasonably afford, than you won't have to worry, as you add to your roster. Byron
I would add just a bit to Byron’s comment. Figure out what you can afford, then buy the next larger unit. A long time ago I got a transformer for my original HO layout and quickly learned that I needed to upgrade. Since then I have always "upgraded" at the get-go, saves money in the long run.
Since no more updates from the originator of the thread, I don't feel too bad about slightly derailing the topic:
Byron, I noticed that you indicated the wattage of your speakers in all your installations. Was that to reinforce that the power handling capabilities of your speakers far exceeded the power output of your sound system?
Just curious, most people don't even know those facts.
I have allways gone X2 wattage output and never had blown speaker.
Thanks for all of your suggestions. I will send away for more powerful booster and will let you if the problem si solved!
Greg Elmassian Byron, I noticed that you indicated the wattage of your speakers in all your installations. Was that to reinforce that the power handling capabilities of your speakers far exceeded the power output of your sound system? Just curious, most people don't even know those facts. Regards, Greg
Greg,
You have my personal phone number...... How about you call me sometime, and we'll discuss what I've experienced, and why I have done the installations as mentioned.....Rather than our corrupting this thread......OK
branchfive I am trying to solve a track power problem I seem to have and would appreciate some good advice. I have about 300 feet of track in my backyard here in Florida.
I am trying to solve a track power problem I seem to have and would appreciate some good advice. I have about 300 feet of track in my backyard here in Florida.
Branchfive,
I note you are here in Hurricane Alley also....I'm in Kissimmee ...So where you at....I belong to the FGRS, Central Division.....E-mail me directly if you'd care to, at onelastandman@yahoo.com....
Maybe we could talk or even get together sometime to share ideas and help each other out, I was at the recent show there in Deltona, at the Fair Grounds back on Jan. 9th and 10th, did you by chance get by there at all?
If you were there, and came by our FGRS layout, I was running my BNSF Dash-9's pulling the Cat tank car tain, and also the Northern Pacific Passenger train, following each other on the outer track.
Thank you. I believe my problem is that the MRC power 8 is prone to overheating when used outdoors on a larger layout. I keep it in the shade but I live in Florida where it gets hot. The MRC does not have a cooling fan where their new model does as do some of the others. It has been cool here the past few weeks and I have been successfully running two trains. I am purchasaing a new power booster and supply. We'll see what happens when it gets hot again. I would guess the MRC power 8 is fine for an indoor railroad.
Why not get a small fan to see if it helps? Just a couple of bucks from Radio Shack?
Greg Elmassian Why not get a small fan to see if it helps? Just a couple of bucks from Radio Shack? Regards, Greg
I second that motion. If your unit has no fan, putting one in will do nothing but help.
ttrigg Greg Elmassian Why not get a small fan to see if it helps? Just a couple of bucks from Radio Shack? Regards, Greg I second that motion. If your unit has no fan, putting one in will do nothing but help.
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