Rivarossi from the 60s

MHan

I have an old Rivarossi locomotive from the 60s from my grandfather that I want to rehabilitate(for sentimental reasons).  It has that odd motor in the tender with the flexible drive shaft to the locomotive arrangement.  Can motors still be had for this type of locomotive?

You are highly unlikely to find an exact replacement - nor do you want to if you are trying to improve performance.  Chances are that the motor is not the issue - but you didn't say what the performance issue is.  The 1st item to fail in older engines is the "flexible" tubing used to link the motor and gearbox (and possibly intermediate drive shafts).  The tubing either rots or turns rock hard and doesn't flex.  Old gearboxes tend to be filled with dried up grease that is also rock hard.  Finally, the motor magnets may have lost some of their strength.  But the magnets can be replace with a rare earth magnet stack, and the motor will perform better than ever if the bearings are still good.

In the event you still want to replace the motor, there are can motors and coreless motors which will fit with some adapting.  Price ranges all over the place, with a good coreless motor being in the neighborhood of $50 or more.  But I wouldn't change the motor and risk burning the new motor up unless I knew the mechanism was free-running and in excellent condition.

And it seems as if there is this general consensus that Rivarossi produced expensive stuff but the quality wasn't so great.  Am I perceiving this wrong?  Perhaps their reputation is tarnished by what they put out under that name in the 90s and early 2000s?

I don't know where you got your consensus from.  I personally avoided most Rivarossi products because of my handlaid code 70 track, and Rivarossi's ugly pizza cutter flanges.  My Heisler was an exception that came with RP25 flanges.  Later I learned that the smaller Rivarossi locos I was interested in were generally over scale size - like many other manufacturers of that day.

In the '70s through '90s, Rivarossi was the early producer of high end plastic locomotives.  They were generally more expensive than their Mantua/Roundhouse/Bowser diecast counterparts but less expensive than brass.  My personal opinion is that the detail was a big cut above die cast but performance was strictly average for the day, with the major flaws being supersonic top speeds and rough running (at slow speed) 3 pole motors.  Most earlier Rivarossi locos could stand higher gear ratios to slow them down.  NWSL did produce regear kits for many of them.  Finally, Rivarossi's light plastic compared to diecast metal made them poor pullers in comparison.

I don't think that Rivarossi quality went down any - I believe their later models were real improvements over earlier.  However, the bar was raised significantly by BLI, Proto2K, and Spectrum in the '90s.  And Italian labor couldn't compete with Chinese labor.

If this seems negative, it isn't meant to be.  Rivarossi locos have their good points and not-so-good points - like almost all model manufacturers.

Fred W

 as for price vs. quality, it was pretty good stuff for it's time when you compare it to the other products that were available back then.  it would only run on code 100 track but in those days code 70 was still a novel idea to a lot of people. (primarily narrow gaugers)

  i have tinkered around with their locomotives in the past but not any more,  there is too much better stuff available now and if sentiment is your driving force then go for it.  otherwise i personally consider any motor upgrades to old rivarossi to be like beating a cripple horse with a new whip.

grizlump

 For sentimental reasons put the Rivarossi on the mantel as a static display instead of trying to rehabilitate it.

If you're really determined to run it, try lubricating it first to see if it really runs well enough to be salvaged.  The preferred lubrication is Dexron III Mercon Automatic Transmission Fluid.  Apply a very small drop to every axle and other moving part with the tip of a toothpick.  Open up the tender and oil the motor's bearings and see if that doesn't improve how well it runs.

Other than the oversized European wheel flanges, those old Rivarossi models were good runners when they were new.

I agree with grizlump.The Riv's was good locomotives for their time-even some of the AHM/Rivs was decent for that era.I loved my AHM/Riv 0-8-0.

Now,oh boy,where to start?

First I would give it a good cleaning and use LaBelle 102 gear lube and 104 motor oil.

If that failed then I recommend trying Walthers or if you don't mind a E-Bay store..:

http://stores.ebay.com/K4-Supply-Company__W0QQ_fsubZ13829497QQ_scZ1QQ_sopZ1

I have a number of these engines which my father-in-law handed down to me.  They still run, even after 30 years or so in storage.  But, the wheel flanges are so deep that I couldn't even run them on Code 100 Atlas track.

MisterBeasley

I have a number of these engines which my father-in-law handed down to me.  They still run, even after 30 years or so in storage.  But, the wheel flanges are so deep that I couldn't even run them on Code 100 Atlas track.

That's odd..  The Rivs I seen over the years ran on C100..

BRAKIE

That's odd..  The Rivs I seen over the years ran on C100..

Same here -- the only problem I ever had with them was going through Atlas turnouts.  They could take a Peco or Shinohara turnout just fine with their deep wheel flanges, but the wheels would get lifted off the rail going through an Atlas frog on even code 100 turnouts.

Can motors still be had for this type of locomotive?

Not new ones. I believe Rivarossi stopped making the motors that fit these when they stopped making the tender drives (they redesigned the square motors and made them smaller). You can still find them on eBay every so often. Does your motor still run? How much of the motor's brushes is left?

Does it use a piece of flexible rubber tubing to go from the tender to the engine? Those almost always dry up and break with age, and need to be replaced. You might be able to use a good quality universal from NWSL or Micro-Mark in its place.

Does the drivetrain move freely when you turn the shaft? Old Rivarossi grease gets very stiff with age, and should be completely cleaned out and replaced with some good grease (like Vaseline, or something from Labelle). Also, all the bearings should be oiled.

All electrical pickup points also need to be completely clean, and if wheel wipers (or in many cases with Rivarossis, silver plungers) are used, they should have enough spring tension to make contact with the wheels at all times.

 And it seems as if there is this general consensus that Rivarossi produced expensive stuff but the quality wasn't so great.  Am I perceiving this wrong?  Perhaps their reputation is tarnished by what they put out under that name in the 90s and early 2000s?

Some people might tell you they were awful, because they had one or a couple steam engines 30 years ago that didn't run well. In my experience, they usually need just a little bit of tuning to run really well. And once they've been properly tuned, they're excellent runners.

The stuff from the mid-90s up to now has been fantastic. Their 2-6-6-6 Allegheny even won various awards because it was so impressive! The Allegheny I have is simply incredible.

MisterBeasley

I have a number of these engines which my father-in-law handed down to me.  They still run, even after 30 years or so in storage.  But, the wheel flanges are so deep that I couldn't even run them on Code 100 Atlas track.

Those good old Rivarossi pizza cutter flanges. I got back into the hobby in the late 1970s and built my loco roster with Athearn BB diesels and Rivarossi steam. I've still got the steamers. Two Challengers, two Northerns, one gray and one black of each. A Big Boy and several smaller UP steamers. In addition I picked up a Pennsy 2-8-8-2 and an SP cab forward from an estate sale. Last I checked, they all still run well. When I got back into the hobby early in this decade, the plan was to retrofit them with decoders but soon discovered that these just weren't made for code 83 track. They sound like they are going over a washboard as the flanges scrape the ties. When factory sound became readily available, I dropped plans to upgrade these to DCC and decided to go with new stuff. I'm still holding on to them. I might check out what they might draw on e-bay. They're still good runners 

MisterBeasley

I have a number of these engines which my father-in-law handed down to me.  They still run, even after 30 years or so in storage.  But, the wheel flanges are so deep that I couldn't even run them on Code 100 Atlas track.

Just turn them down. Have done many, with no problem. This should help. ( 3rd post)

  I suspect you might have an old Rivarossi 2-8-0 with the motor on the tender.  These were sold in the mid 60's(got mine at a 'dime' store(Walgreens??).  It is a model of something built for Army service in Europe IIRC, and had '280' on the side of the tender.  It has 'porthole' windows on the front of the cab and a large combined sand/steam dome on the boiler.   The motor is mounted in the tender.  The tender frame was cast metal and the tender shell is plastic.  My motor burned out and I had to mill enough material out of the tender frame so I could mount an old Pittman more in it.  I replaced the cab and the steam/sand domes.  I painted/lettered if for the Milwaukee Road and ran it through the 70's.  It had the large flanges and would only run on code 100 trackage.  It was also just a little bit too long for the Atlas 9" turntable!

Jim