General Discussion (Model Railroader)

 Hi, i am about to get a steam loco for my logging rr, does anyone have any suggestions, i want something that is fairly heavy and not a pice of junk. this has to last a good long time with lots of use. Thanks.

Bear,

If you are doing a logging RR then a Shay would be a good locomotive for you.  Bachmann supposedly makes a very nice one in their Spectrum line.  I could be wrong but they may make both a 2- and 3-truck Shay.

Tom

We  need more information, such as:

1) What timeframe are you modeling?

2) Diesel or steam engine? (see #1)

3) What location are you modeling? Are you logging the rugged terrain of the Pacific NW?, the Longleaf Pine forests of Louisiana, or the Black Forest in Germany?

As far as not buying a piece of junk steer clear of the "standard" (trainset) line of locos, stick to Spectrum, Genesis, Atlas etc.

 For pulling log buggies into and out of the woods, you cannot beat a Shay.  The Bachmann Spectrum Shay would fit right in.  Be aware that  Shays are slow, so slow that they don't work out so well on the main line, but for making the run into the woods, they are great. 

   For a more general purpose steamer the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 Consolidation looks good, runs good and isn't overly expensive.  The Consolidation is a medium-to-small steamer that is at home pulling freight on weedy branch lines or a well ballasted double track main.  Or try the IHC 2-6-0 Mogul for a small steamer, at home with short trains both passenger and freight.    

In addressing inquiries of this nature you need to specify a scale; I will assume you are talking HO-Scale here.

Bachmann has a three-truck Shay on the market, the quintessential logger--this is a Spectrum® loke and I guess from reading here on the forum that owners are generally satisfied with them. And then there is Mantua's --now owned and distributed by Model Power--2-6-6-2 in both the tender and tank-engine versions. A lot of your selection is going to be dependent on just what curve radius you are using--the Shay, of course, is going to negotiate tighter radius curves than the articulated.

Personally, if I were only going to have one steamer for my pike I would go with the 2-6-6-2, I suppose, when all is said and done, because of its mass; Shay operators, on the other hand, swear by them. 

bear's lair:

i am about to get a steam loco for my logging rr, does anyone have any suggestions,

If you are talking about modern logging / pulp wood operations there are a bunch of options from many vendors.   This weekend I'm running the Oregon California & Eastern a west coast logging road from the early 1970s.  The normal "log" train that moves the logs from the mountains to the mill on the mainline normally runs three GP38s on the point.  The train that collects the logs from the camps and brings them to the main is an old GN 2-8-8-0.  So going back in time to steam loco's I would think a 2-8-8-2 would make a fine logger.   Proto-2000 makes one.   Bachmann Spectrum also has a 2-10-2 that would be a pretty heavy logger for the main line.

Geared Steam:

We  need more information, such as:

2) Diesel or steam engine?

If your logging line is going to be a relatively well-used one with substantial rail like some of the logging lines that used to run out here in California, Oregon and Washington, then the Mantua Classic 2-6-6-2 tank mallet might be a pretty good option.  It generally resembles a logging mallet that used to run here in Northern California on the Clover Valley Lumber railroad.   I understand that it will run without any problems on radii as tight as 18".  It could also be used for either branch or mainline work.

For 'backwoods' logging lines with lighter rail and more 'temporary' track, the Spectrum Shay would probably fit the bill just fine--either the 2 or 3-truck version.   

Tom

 I am modeling a late 1930s west coast logging rr in ho scale steam powered, with lot's of inclines with mountains and hills and a large forested area with two trestle bridges on about 95ft of track,

Right now Bachmann has three truck Shay for HO but they are known to have a cracked gear issue. Your mileage may differ. Search the Internet for shay cracked gear.

Replacement trucks are available or send the loco back to Bachmann for a replacement.

Micro Mark and a couple others have good prices.

 Rich

Heislers and Climax engines are also good back woods engines.  However, they are getting scarce, and they are all light engines since they were small to begin with in the real world.  You didn't really want a large, heavy, long-driver-based engine on droopy back woods light tracks where curves were tight.  Tank engines of the 2-6-2T and 2-8-2T were widely used in parts.  You could add weight to a tank engine model to make it quite heavy.  Unfortunately, engines of that configuration are mostly in brass, so expensive.

I would seriously consider the engine suggested by several people already, the Mantua engine.  Be aware, though, that some users have found the power pickup to be iffy.  You may have to add a couple of your own to improve performance.

-Crandell

bear's lair:

 I am modeling a late 1930s west coast logging rr in ho scale steam powered, with lot's of inclines with mountains and hills and a large forested area with two trestle bridges on about 95ft of track,

You didn't really define a prototype, or what a good model locomotive means to you - other than durability and weight.  How important is prototype fidelity?  Slow speed performance?  Does it need to be quiet enough to install sound?  What level of detail?  Price range?

Probably the most important - how much work are you willing to put into this model locomotive to achieve the other goals?  Is a kit acceptable?  How about a true bash?  Or building a Class A Climax from a bare mechanism?  Are you willing to chase down out of production items, or outbid others on eBay for a particular model?

Some of the characteristics of logging railroads - California, Oregon, and Washington coastal.  The 1920s were boom years; in the 1930s the nation was in the Great Depression.  Not much new was bought in the 1930s, and many outfits went bust.  Those that survived generally converted to truck (with a few exceptions) in the 1950s.  The logs were generally pulled downhill to the mills; empty cars went back up the mountains to the landings.  Because of gravity, tremendous power was not needed by the logging railroads.  Mining railroads usually needed heavier engines than logging lines.  A geared engine is/was pretty much limited to less than 30 miles each way out and back in a day's work.  Rod engines were used if a longer run was being made.

At the most expensive end are brass models of geared locos.  These will meet your weight and durability criteria better than anything else.  They may need painting and/or remotoring.  I believe the PFM B-2 Shays were made somewhat oversized, but the others are more to scale.  Shays were built in a wide variety of sizes, but the very largest would be used in mining and not in West Coast logging.  Model Shays tend to struggle more than Climaxes or Heislers on very sharp curves due to the offset telescoping line shafts.  They will usually go better around sharp curves in one direction than in the other.

Brass logging rod engines - 2-8-2T were the most commonly made models - would also be a good choice.  NWSL in particular imported these.  There are no good non-brass examples that I know of, although a Proto 0-8-0 might be a good starting point to rolling your own.

Mantua's 2-6-6-2 (either tank or tender) is a good generic representative of the Mallets that were found on some West Coast logging lines.  There have been reports of poor electrical pickup, but it will apparently take 15" radius curves with ease.

Bachmann's Shay is a very nice model of a quite large 3 truck Shay.  It does have the issue of cracked/stripped gears, but NWSL has come out with steel replacement gears.  The Bachmann Climax (out of production) apparently has the same issue, and again NWSL is working on a fix.  Heavier loads tend to exacerbate the problem with the gears.

I have not heard anything negative about the Rivarossi/AHM Heisler other than it too is oversize for a logging line - it scales out to some of the largest Heislers made.  Supposedly the '90s version has slower speed gearing and other improvements.  Mine is the earlier version.

If you are willing to tinker with the mechanism, the Roundhouse Shay makes an attractively sized Shay.  NWSL regear kits are available to improve the mech, and there is plenty published on how to make it run well (with some effort).  I have been told that the Roundhouse Shay repeated the slightly oversize scaling of the PFM B-2, but is still reasonably representative of a 50T Shay in the 2 truck version.

At the more adventurous end is the Keystone Shay kit.  It requires an NWSL motorizing kit to run, and is not, according to the NWSL instructions, "for the faint of heart."  However, it is all metal, and builds into a very nice pulling, very small Shay.  There is help on the web.

Also at the bash end of the spectrum would be taking an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 mech and making a 2-4-2T or 2-4-4T or 2-6-2T.  All were common logging rod engines.  The Kidder, Mantua, Spectrum, Roundhouse mechs could all be reasonable starting points.  Roundhouse even made a 2-6-2 kit which might easiest to convert.

At the cheap end was/is the Roundhouse Class A Climax.  Roundhouse made a rather fanciful steam shell to fit their boxcab diesel chassis.  Noiser than all get out, mine outpulls and switches at slow speed better than any other locomotive I own.  Ultra-reliable and very heavy it is; quiet it is not.  NWSL refused to make a regear/remotor kit because the kit would cost more than the locomotive is worth.  Again, literature exists on how to make it run better and look better.

Plenty of modeling logging lines use the Heisler or Bachmann locos despite their size, and their owners are quite happy.  Only a few "rivit counters" know or care about the difference.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....

richg1998:

 

Right now Bachmann has three truck Shay for HO but they are known to have a cracked gear issue. Your mileage may differ. Search the Internet for shay cracked gear.

I don't have one of these, but I've noticed an advertiser in the NG&SLG is selling steel replacement gears (about $25, I think).  That's an indicator that the cracked gear problem is a real issue, and that there is a solution.

All of my shays are brass.  On ebay they usually sell for about $300, so that may be a little pricey.  Still, they look good, run well, and the gears don't crack.

From my experience, the mid-size (70T) brass shays seem to sell for less than the smaller ones (18-22T).  So, you might get a decent 70 tonner for a little over $200.

Good luck.

fwright:

 A geared engine is/was pretty much limited to less than 30 miles each way out and back in a day's work.  Rod engines were used if a longer run was being made.

"Have tender, will travel."  Here is a two-truck Heisler locomotive equipped for long runs.  (Heislers were a bit speedier than Shays and Climaxes.)

Mark

I think the recommendations everyone's made so far should give you a good idea of what to get.

I have one of the Spectrum 3-Truck Shays. It had the split gear issue pretty bad, so I replaced the gears with NWSL's metal gears. It was a difficult process, but I've got one smooth running Shay now! It's also made mainly from metal, and has about as much weight as you can fit in a Shay. It should handle about a 15" radius while pulling a good string cars up a grade.

Rivarossi's Heisler steam engines, old and new, are supposedly very good. Model Railroader reviewed the newer 3-truck version a few years ago, and had very positive things to say about it. The older ones are probably pretty light in weight, so if it's a heavy steam engine you want, you probably won't want the older Heislers.

The Mantua 2-6-6-2s are probably the heaviest logging steam engines you'll find, and Mantua's product line is known for its high reliability. I have one of their 0-6-0s from the early 60s, and it still runs great to this day!