Electronics and DCC

I wish to convert my DC layout to DCC . How does the Crest Train Engineer  system compare to the most popular DCC   systems available ? Initially, it seems quite simple and less involved than most DCC installations .

 They are not the same thing at all.  If you use NMRA standard DCC any brand of decoder will work with any brand of command station.  With Crest, it is a proprietary system so only Crest decoders will work with it.

Crest was developed by Polk's Hobby Shop, whose specialty has long been G scale trains.  If Crest goes out of business, you're going to be stuck with having to replace everything eventually as you acquire more locomotives and can't get Crest decoders for them.

cortelrb:

I wish to convert my DC layout to DCC . How does the Crest Train Engineer  system compare to the most popular DCC   systems available ? Initially, it seems quite simple and less involved than most DCC installations .

Which Aristo Craft system are you considering/refering to?

They make several different products, all of which can be used in smaller scales by one means or the other.

If you are refering to the HO Train Engineer that uses recievers installed in the locos, keep in mind that your costs will be similar to DCC and you will be locked into Aristo Craft as the other poster mentioned.

Aristo Craft has a new 2.4 Ghz product called the Revolution but they have not yet introduced HO size receivers for that.

There is no question that the direct radio approach has some merrits, but again Aristo is the only company making it. While it does reduce the "under layout infrastructure", things like reverse loops will still require special wiring.

One thing never discussed about DCC, is the fact that if the company that makes your system goes out of business, some or all of your under layout infrastructure (base unit, throttles, wireless throttles, wireless throttle receivers, reversers, etc) could become obsolete. The up side is your decoders in your locos would be compatible with what ever new DCC system you replace it with. And, decoders can be the biggest part of a DCC system investment (that is part of what kept me with DC). Not true with a system like the HO Train Engineer. If Aristo stops making it, everything about it will be obsolete.

I use the track power version of the Aristo Craft Train Engineer on my layout. This gives me wireless throttles without installing decoders or receivers in my locos. The TE throttles replace conventional power packs and I have my own custom designed cab control wiring which allows cabs to be asigned/unassigned to the various track sections (blocks) from all around the layout as you walk around with your train.

So, if the Train Engineer throttles ever go out of production, and need replacement, one of several other similar products on market could simply be "plugged in" to that part of the wiring to replace the Train Engineer.

Having no interest in onboard sound, and having over 100 locos, I wanted a system that gave me wireless throttles without decoders. The Train Engineer does that very well. It's pulse width modulated DC output provides excelent control speed and great constant lighting without installing decoders.

Sheldon

One thing never discussed about DCC, is the fact that if the company that makes your system goes out of business, some or all of your under layout infrastructure (base unit, throttles, wireless throttles, wireless throttle receivers, reversers, etc) could become obsolete. The up side is your decoders in your locos would be compatible with what ever new DCC system you replace it with. And, decoders can be the biggest part of a DCC system investment (that is part of what kept me with DC). Not true with a system like the HO Train Engineer. If Aristo stops making it, everything about it will be obsolete.

Thats funny, I have never heard of a DCC company going under.

Reversing units are not DCC system specific.

David B

davidmbedard:

Thats funny, I have never heard of a DCC company going under.

CSX Robert:

davidmbedard:

Thats funny, I have never heard of a DCC company going under.

ZTC Controls. I don't know if they actually "went under," but they did get out of the DCC business.

As I understand it, they sold the business. I don´t know when and where the products will surface again.

davidmbedard:

Thats funny, I have never heard of a DCC company going under.

And let's not forget Wangrow - System One

Granted people who bought that lucked out since it shared design with NEC, but fact is they are out of business.

davidmbedard:

Reversing units are not DCC system specific.

I did clearly say "some" and "may" "....become obsolite".

Gee, two is a lot more than none, especially in a group of less than 10.

Sheldon

NCE and Wangrow (and Ramtraxx), while 3 seperate companies, shared a common system design, so no orphans. Which beats one certain company still in business who has orphaned owners of multiple previous systems before finally getting the hint that people don't want to throw away their old system to get a new one.

                              --Randy

ATLANTIC CENTRAL:

davidmbedard:

Thats funny, I have never heard of a DCC company going under.

And let's not forget Wangrow - System One

Granted people who bought that lucked out since it shared design with NEC, but fact is they are out of business.

davidmbedard:

Reversing units are not DCC system specific.

I did clearly say "some" and "may" "....become obsolite".

Gee, two is a lot more than none, especially in a group of less than 10.

Sheldon

Pointing out that some obscure UK DCC company (who had overpriced components) and another company's whos parts are compatable with NCE hardly proves what you were saying about DCC companies going under........even less to worry about something like that happening.

........and DC control may go the way of the do-do as well (it could have already happened....who knows...or cares?)  Whats your point?  

No, reversing units do not become obsolete....ever.....they are like decoders, compatible across the reaches of DCC.  There is no MAY or MIGHT. 

Decoders can be had for 12 dollars each. [Comments removed - Tom]

David B

OK, here are a few pictures:

The house is our 1901 Queen Anne which we lovingly restored to its orginal appearance.

Please excuse the poor quality of the train photos, they were taken several years ago with a very inexpensive camera.

The control panel/relay panel phots are of the control system using the Aristo Train Engineer wireless throttles. I desgined and installed the walk around cab selection system on a friend's layout. His layout was a featured tour layout during the NMRA convention in Phily.

And another view of the house and the 6 car garage with train room above, located in the town of Forest Hill, Maryland, once a stop on the Maryland and Pennsylvannia Railroad. The house was built in 1901, the same time the Ma & Pa was formed and converted to standard gauge.

After we completed its restoration in 1998, the house was featured on the HGTV show Restore America in 2003.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qky44x8n0w0d&scene=18756800&lvl=2&sty=b

davidmbedard:

Pointing out that some obscure UK DCC company (who had overpriced components) and another company's whos parts are compatable with NCE hardly proves what you were saying about DCC companies going under........even less to worry about something like that happening.

I did not point out the obscure UK company - someone else did.

davidmbedard:

Decoders can be had for 12 dollars each. [Comments removed - Tom]

Decoders were not $12 when I decided not to go DCC, and, in fact, while you and others use those low prices to defend DCC, you then turn right around and criticize those same "budget" products and their lack of quality and features when answering questions for those having problems with DCC.

Fact is, $12 decoders would likely be a bad choice for most of my motive power. Fact is I can't give away the budget decoders that I take out of my Bachmann Spectrum locos. Nobody wants them, and I understand why.

Why does it bug you so much that I don't want to be part of your beer drinking, freemo, DCC crowd?

Fact is I don't criticize other modelers work at train shows or anywhere else (but I much prefer private layout open houses to modular train show meets).

Fact is you don't really know anything about me David, but you would not like me anyway, even if I did use DCC. But that's OK.

I didn't give the OP any advice, actually I asked him a question and pointed out all the same pitfalls of a "one source" system as everyone else.

Fact is I didn't choose Aristo's HO Train Engineer for those three reasons, only one source, decoder cost and decoder installation. Two of those same reasons are why I don't use DCC.

My only references to my personal situation were made to you directly in a PM, you made that public on here, not me. But now I have verified it for all.

And, by the way, the house is paid for, and so is everything in it (trains, guns, cars, aristo craft throttles, BUT NO BEER)

Sheldon

 NCE 12 dollar decoders are of high quality.  They have torque compensation, silent drive, a 9 pin interface and 4 lighting outputs.  They only thing they lack is BEMF.  They are in a different league than the throw away Bachmann Lenz knockoffs.

As a professional singer, drinking any type of Alcohol is a bad idea (just so you know).

David B

ATLANTIC CENTRAL:

Decoders were not $12 when I decided not to go DCC, and, in fact, while you and others use those low prices to defend DCC, you then turn right around and criticize those same "budget" products and their lack of quality and features when answering questions for those having problems with DCC.

Fact is, $12 decoders would likely be a bad choice for most of my motive power. Fact is I can't give away the budget decoders that I take out of my Bachmann Spectrum locos. Nobody wants them, and I understand why.

Sheldon,

A little clarification is in order here.  The $12 decoders that David is referring to are NOT the low-budget Lenz decoders that come with some Bachmann locomotives - e.g. DCC on Board.

NCE's D13SR decoder is 4-function, silent-running, and VERY good for the price.  Singularly, they can be had for $13-$14 each.  In bulk (4 or 10), you can get them for under $13 and $12, respectively.  These particular decoders a FAR cry from the low-budget Lenz decoders that only run okay, at best.  It's these decoders that David has qualms about; NOT the low price but better quality decoders.

Tom

[Edit: Well - looks like David squeezed all that I was trying to say right in ahead of me.]