Steam & Preservation

I saw it in the shop after the fall color tour with SP4449. It's all torn down. Will the Friends ship it back in pieces?  I think the Friends own most of the rolling stock. It'll be a shame to break up a matched set like that. (261+the MILW Hiawatha cars)

 They will put the engine back together and return it, however condition I don't know.

There is 2 years on the lease left, they should give it a last hurrah really and run a farewell trip.

The NRM says they will be looking to keep it in operation, the friends of 261 might not be involved but it might take a serious investment group to do what the NRM looks for.

Maybe some magic happens since the announcement was made...or not, but its a wait and see, but for now, the engine would get returned.

 The mumble is to look at 265 at the Illinois Railway Museum.

 Really, it could be a positive thing, NRM still interested in 261's operation, Fo261 may switch to another engine become friends of 265 (rumor) and you get 2 Milwaukee steamers running, maybe a double header sometime, so not to look negative on the whole situation. Fof261 may not be able to handle the financial requirements the NRM looks for.

I see it as good and bad news. The good news is that the friends isn't dead and will look for another engine. The bad news is 261 going back to Green Bay. Yes, I know they said that they want 261 to run but I really don't think anyone is going to put the time into it that the Friends did. I think it'll end up getting stuffed and mounted, eventually getting put on display inside.

 Right now even if 261 is put back together it won't be able to run. It still has to go through the mandated inspection before it can run again. The friends don't want to spend money doing the inspection only to have to give back the engine a year later, as they wouldn't get done until at least 2011.

I'm trying to change the title of this thread, I don't know how the software will handle that.

I'd bet that 261 will never steam again unless/until it passes from NRM ownership.  Given what has happened, I just can't conceive of anyone agreeing to accomplish the work necessary for the federally mandated rebuilding without being able to control the long term future.

I wish someone from the NRM would jump into this thread and explain their position.  I just can't see the logic that is driving them.     

I look upon 261 going back to Green Bay as a major setback to the railfan community.  Every year I pay dues to several organizations that actually operate rail equipment, although I may never visit their operation again.  Since I can't support everybody, my choices are driven in large part by who is attempting to maintain a steam program.           

I've heard the original plan was 4449 would "cover" for 261 this fall, then next year when 4449 was down for repairs, 261 would cover for it. Of course now 4449 is apparently looking for a new home. Hey, the FO261 orange and red passenger cars blend together pretty well with 4449....

I'm sorry about the title of the thread. I knew better. Brain phart i guess.

How about one of those Chi-com steamers the IAIS has in storage in Newton?

  What a shame. I hope they get 265 running but thats  a pie in the sky idea right now.NRM thinks they can run 261 like the friend did? Good luck with that.I have a feeling when all is said and done they will regret this.

May be they should become the Friends of 3006. Because the CB&Q hudson that IRM has is in much better condition than the Milwalkee 265. I would think that would be a bigger draw than the Milwakee 4-8-4. (Now I'll get all the Milwakee road fans mad at me)

The thing is that I believe some of 261's parts came from the 265. I would think all parts that were borrowed will either be sent back to where they came from or used on whatever the Friends restores next. There are several possibilities out there for a guest next year. I heard SOO 2719 mentioned a couple times, I would think 2719 or sister 1003 wouldn't be bad substitutes next year. Of course, the one good thing about this is that we may get to see many different steam engines from many roads running excursions until a new engine is restored. Of course losing 261 for that is still a major blow, there are enough steam engines sitting around that could operate rusting away. Maybe they could revive Frisco 1522, it's sitting in good condition under a shed at the St. Louis museum and it sounded like the museum there would be willing to let it run again.

I still think a Milwaukee Road engine will be picked. The friends already has the Milwaukee Road trainset so 265 would fit in perfectly, plus I think 265 is in better shape than what 261 was in before it was restored. Also, the people in the shop really wouldn't have to start new then since they already have the experience of working with 261 for all these years. 265 is currently stored inside a barn at IRM with the Nebraska Zephyr and a GG1, so it is well protected at this time.

nwo4rf:

May be they should become the Friends of 3006. Because the CB&Q hudson that IRM has is in much better condition than the Milwalkee 265. I would think that would be a bigger draw than the Milwakee 4-8-4. (Now I'll get all the Milwakee road fans mad at me)

I don't know. I won't be happy with anything smaller than a 4-8-4. Anything else is just too small for me. Well ok maybe a 2-8-4 or a 2-10-4, but I just don't want to see the group go from a 4-8-4 to something tiny like a 2-6-2 or whatever.

The CB&Q Hudsons (4-6-4) were the largest built. It would be the closest thing to having a real Hiawatha. It just would not have the streamlineing. I would not call it a tiny locomotive.

The heaviest 4-6-4 was C&O's L2a - 443,000 lbs

Other heavyweight Hudsons (engine only):

C&O's L2 - 439,500 lbs

ATSF 3460 (streamlined) - 420,400 lbs

Milw F7 - 415,000 lbs

ATSF 3460 class - 412,380 lbs

C&NW E4 - 412,000 lbs

wjstix:

I've heard the original plan was 4449 would "cover" for 261 this fall, then next year when 4449 was down for repairs, 261 would cover for it. Of course now 4449 is apparently looking for a new home. Hey, the FO261 orange and red passenger cars blend together pretty well with 4449....

  Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. The SP 4449, the SP&S 700 and the OR&N 197, have found a new home, but it will be 2011, or 2012 IIRC before it will be ready. All three of these locomotives are OWNED by the City of Portland, OR, I don't think that the 4449, is going that far from home long term. There already is a Friends of the 4449, but if the FO261 care to move to Portland, I would imagine that the FO4449 would welcome them into the existing FO4449.

Doug

  You get one of them Q hudsons running adn i will be more than happy to run one. Sowould about 3 other guys who actually did run them in service ( granted by the time this could be pulled off they would already be running them at the big railroad in the sky) Great fellas who were Q employees and cometo RR days and give little tours of the one there.I know how to pop the top of the speed recorder and where to put the block of wood lol.

  Seriously though nothing wrong with one of them Hudsons. I dnt think you have to worry about a 2-6-2 in mainline service. But one of them Alice the Goon beasts could really turn the wheels.

Someone here will probably know the name - I'm drawing a blank now - but the guy who's like the "chief mechanical officer" for FO261 talked to our RR club about a year ago. He said that one reason they picked 261 to restore and use was that it was relatively new (being built in WW2) and didn't have as many problem issues like asbestos etc. that the other engines they looked at did. So...it could be if worst comes to worst they could find another engine, but it might be harder to get into working order than 261 was. In any case, even if they lose 261 the friends will probably stay in operation in some form. He noted that they basically break even or take a slight loss on 261 trips, but come out ahead on leasing their passenger cars for other fantrip use or to private individuals.