General Discussion

What is the average number of trains that travel on the Crescent Corridor a day? Is it all double tracked or soon will be?

If you look at NS's map of the Crescent Corridor (go to thefutureneedsus.com), you'll see that it is actually a network of lines that serve a corridor. None of those lines are double tracked, although there are some sections on some of the lines. Some sections of the lines that make up the corridor are near capacity and some are fairly lightly used. The building out of the corridor will involve construction of terminals and elimination of bottlenecks, mostly adding or lengthening sidings with bits and pieces of double track, but I don't believe there are plans for wholesale double track on any line. The whole deal is a play to get domestic intermodal traffic from I-81/I-85 and the first steps are to put terminals in place to gather and disperse the traffic. There are 4 new terminals being built - Memphis, Birmingham (McCalla), Knoxville (New Market), and Greencastle PA. Interestingly, Memphis and Greencastle are moving ahead smoothly, but there has been much NIMBY wailing and gnashing of teeth over B'ham and Knoxville.

oltmannd:

There are 4 new terminals being built - Memphis, Birmingham (McCalla), Knoxville (New Market), and Greencastle PA. Interestingly, Memphis and Greencastle are moving ahead smoothly, but there has been much NIMBY wailing and gnashing of teeth over B'ham and Knoxville.

Don, do you feel the Memphis terminal competes or compliments with CN's recently expanded Memphis terminal?

nanaimo73:

oltmannd:

There are 4 new terminals being built - Memphis, Birmingham (McCalla), Knoxville (New Market), and Greencastle PA. Interestingly, Memphis and Greencastle are moving ahead smoothly, but there has been much NIMBY wailing and gnashing of teeth over B'ham and Knoxville.

Don, do you feel the Memphis terminal competes or compliments with CN's recently expanded Memphis terminal?

Not much competition. Perhaps some compliment, but generally, unrelated. I think Memphis to NS is about traffic to/from the southeast and mid Atlantic. For CN, it's about New Orleans and Chicago (and points beyond).

oltmannd:

If you look at NS's map of the Crescent Corridor (go to thefutureneedsus.com), you'll see that it is actually a network of lines that serve a corridor. None of those lines are double tracked, although there are some sections on some of the lines.

Don, are you up on how much of the double track has been abandoned? I have not been able to keep posted. I just looked at a 1956 map of the Southern (to refresh my memory) and saw what was then double track: Washington-Manassas-Austell, Morristown-Knoxville, Ooltewah-Wauhatchie, and Buntyn-Memphis. There were other stretches, but they are not in what is shown on the website you gave us. The NC that Southern used between Wauhatchie and Stevenson was also double track. I knew that in the sixites, about half of the second track between Washington and Atlanta was taken up, leaving alternate stretches of about ten miles of single track and ten miles of two-track, but I do not know about the other sections. Did CSX (or L&N) remove its second track?  

In my riding the Southern main not long after the track reduction, I heard trainmen complaining about having to wait for opposing trains

Thanks,

Johnny

Johnny,

Stevenson, Alabama to Wauhatchie, Tennessee is still double track to this day. I have been to Stevenson to watch trains in 2006 and it was almost non stop action.

George

There is no true double track on any of the ex-Sou parts of NS, that I know of. There are stretches of double track, notably on the CNO&TP, the SOU mainline in NC and the northern portion of Atlanta - Chatt, but nothing like the ex-CR portion of the RR. A lot of this was originally double track (ABS) as you note, and was single tracked when CTC was installed (you had to pay for it somehow!) In the past 10-15 years, they have actually been putting back sections of the 2nd track in places as traffic has increased. I think the places you'd most likely see true double track first would be the CNO&TP from Chatt to Danville, the Wabash east from Decatur or Peru, the Southern from Chatt to Atlanta or maybe even Macon and Harrisburg to Riverton Jct. VA. It will all depend on how the traffic grows and flows and how the PPPs turn out.

oltmannd:

nanaimo73:

oltmannd:

There are 4 new terminals being built - Memphis, Birmingham (McCalla), Knoxville (New Market), and Greencastle PA. Interestingly, Memphis and Greencastle are moving ahead smoothly, but there has been much NIMBY wailing and gnashing of teeth over B'ham and Knoxville.

Don, do you feel the Memphis terminal competes or compliments with CN's recently expanded Memphis terminal?

Not much competition. Perhaps some compliment, but generally, unrelated. I think Memphis to NS is about traffic to/from the southeast and mid Atlantic. For CN, it's about New Orleans and Chicago (and points beyond).

Dale and Don:

The NS's new "Memphis" Intermodal Facility is not in Memphis but East at Rossvile, TN. approx 25/30 miles out TN Hwy 57 and north on Tn Hwy 194 (Main St in Rossville, Tn). It is a community of around 325 +- people.

NS's New facility is actually in Fayette County. The Forrest Yard (long time Memphis Terminus) is in Memphis (west of the Memphis State Univ. Campus and South of the Fairgrounds area.)

Y'all had expressed interest in Intermodal activities in the Memphis area, so here is a link to a September30, 2009 story from the BLE&T Daily News

       http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=27758

This link covers the Intermodal Activities in Memphis, Tn fairly thoroughly.

Here is a brief quote from the article: 

(The article in full has much more of the information.)

"...BNSF Railway Co. is completing a $200 million renovation of its intermodal terminal at Lamar Avenue and Shelby Drive.

Canadian National Railway Co. just finished a $100 million overhaul to its Johnston Yard switching facility, which it renamed Harrison Yard after outgoing CEO E. Hunter Harrison.

And Norfolk Southern Corp. soon will begin construction on a massive, $129 million intermodal site in nearby Rossville..."

Jonnny: Mentioned that there was double-track from Memphis to Byntyn (Buntyn used to be the eastern yard limit for Forrest Yard, and single track began at Buntyn; and the line was single tracked almost exclusively to Sheffield, Ala.) 

oltmannd:

 [snip] It will all depend on how the traffic grows and flows and how the PPPs turn out.

"PPP" = "Public-Private Partnership" between the several states and NS to upgrade the Crescent Corridor, correct ?

 Yes, aka "P3".

RWM