Layouts and layout building

I'm doing some research before starting in on my first layout and could use a better understanding of the track options out there. I understand that most serious, permanent layouts use flextrack. But I'm expecting my layout plan to evolve a lot as I learn, so I think I'd prefer to use sectional track to get started with, though I might do certain tricky parts in flex or replace old sections with flex as my plans crystallize. As far as sectional track goes, there seems to be a lot of variety in manufacturers as well as whether the track has an included roadbed. Any recommendations for a type that's relatively easy to get started with, but will still help me develop good track-laying skills? I'd like to learn how to lay roadbed properly myself, so I'm tending away from the stuff with roadbed included, but at the same time I'd like the track to run at least reasonably well out of the box while I get started on the layout. Is that possible? Are any of the options more or less compatible with flextrack, in case I want to use flex for particular sections? Cost is a relevant, but not overriding consideration. Also, the loco I'm planning on runs on Code 83 track, in case that limits the options at all.

I built 2 1x7' industrial switching layouts using Atlas snap track over the years and had no problems as long as each section was firmly jointed and the joiners pinched close on the rails to prevent the joiners from sliding-I used needle nose pliers.

 I don't recommend snap track for large layouts..

Its better to use flex track and snap track where needed in yards and industrial sidings to fill small track size requirements.

Can't help you.  Haven't used sectional track since when I laid it out on the living room rug in 1962, and I haven't looked back.

Mark

What size are we talking here N, HO, S, O, G?

For HO (assuming from the mention of code 83 but that still could be N) sectional track, without attached roadbed, there aren't all that many options out there.  Atlas and Shinohara come to mind. As far as I know Roco is no longer made.

Hard to go wrong with generic Atlas for experimenting with. Lots of references to get ideas from. Cheap by comparison.  The Code-83 track library has many more selections than the former code 100 did.  Most notably 26" and 24" radius curves.

I have visited a very large N scale layout built entirely using Kato's Uni-Track, which combines the sectional track with built in ballast/roadbed.  The builder did a good job of disguising the slight gaps between the roadbed sections (I think Kato sells a matching ballast).  His explanation is that he likes to change the layout so often that the sectional track seemed to make more sense than ripping out flex track, and it gave the entire layout a nicely finished appearance.

The only thing that appeared somewhat toy-like to my eyes was the extreme regularity and repetitiveness of the curve radius.  Obviously that was a trade off this guy was prepared to live with and the rest of the detailing was nice enough that it was hardly disturbing -- and this was by no means a display layout but a real working model railroad. 

There are other makes of such track both in HO and N.  I'd explore whatever make offers the most choices for curve radius and turnout #s.  It is possible to weather such track (and even add some additional ballast) just to break up the toy-like regularity and monotony so to speak.

Dave Nelson 

Dave,A lot of serious N Scale modelers use Kato's Unitrack simply because its bullit proof.Curves comes in several sizes from 8 1/2 to 28 1/4".

You lost me with "The only thing that appeared somewhat toy-like to my eyes was the extreme regularity and repetitiveness of the curve radius."  The reason being I seen the same with flex track on smaller layouts..You can make flowing "S" curves with Unitrack as well..

However,most modelers use Untitrack on smaller layouts due to the costs.

The one thing that flex does well that sectional track can't even touch is spiral easements, those gentle transitions from straight (aka tangent) track to curved track.

Since I am an experienced track layer, I tend to look at sectional track as, "Too many rail joints."  However, I will concede that it's easier to lay a truly circular curve with sectional track - provided that the track vendor has manufactured sections in the radii that you want to use.  Of course, if you start off with one of the many track plans for sectional track, it will be specifically designed for one manufacturer's products - and will not include easements.

Visually, there isn't much to choose between Atlas sectional and Atlas flex.  Combining flex with sectional on built-in roadbed is a construction and operating challenge I will thankfully forego.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in Septembe, 1964 - with Atlas flex and hand-laid specialwork)

tppytel:

Any recommendations for a type that's relatively easy to get started with, but will still help me develop good track-laying skills?

 I started with sectional track from a starter set, but as soon as I ran a train around it I knew that it was not for me. I did not like the curves as they looked "TOY LIKE" to my eyes. The trains just went from straight track into a curve with no transition. Real track transitions from straight into the curve very gently as does "FLEX TRACK". Needless to say, I ripped up the sectional track and went to the LHS and picked up some roadbed and flex track and several turnouts.

I learned from the kind Ladies & Gentlemen of this forum site on how to split the roadbed, (Gee Whiz, it made laying the curves SOOOO much easier than not splitting it.) how to sand it smooth BEFORE laying track to take out the bumps and dips and many other great tips. It is my considered opinion, that you will not be disappointed AND you will be further ahead if you go with Flex Track right from the start.

If you do have any problems or make a mistake, there is always someone here to help. There will be at least ONE or more of us who have had the same problem or made that mistake  along our own path to MRR enlightenment.

Good Luck.

Blue Flamer.

 I understand your reasoning for wanting to use sectional as opposed to flex track but I employ you to consider using both to start off with. Weather your planing on using code 83 or code 100 it really doesn't matter. Going with code 83 rail I think the obvious choice is Atlas not for any other reason other then I think your going to find they have the largest selection of sectional track. I know flex track tends to scare some people away at first but once you have learned to use it  you'll see that your fears were unfounded.

That being said the first thing is to go get some good books on track laying and techniques etc. The Realistic Relaiable Track publication just put out by MR is geared more towards the seasoned modeler rather then the beginner but it's a wealth of great information from some serious model railroader who really know what they are talking about. Ok first go get yourself some code 83 Atlas flex and practice making some curves on a piece of scrap plywood.  Us a trammel to mark you curve with a pen and then put some cork roadbed down with either some silicone adhesive or just a few brad nails to hold it in place

I have recently been using silicon adhesive to secure track and it works very very well but you can use yellow carpenters glue or just plain old track nails and have some fun making curves you expect to use on your layout. The purpose of this exercise is to show you that you really have nothing to fear when using flex track. Don't worry about changing the track plan etc. Tony Koester one of the premier model railroaders in the country if not the world for that matter suggests you have your track down and work all the bugs out of it before you add scenery. etc. This can also apply to securing track permanently to your roadbed. Leave the track nails in till your happy with everything then remove it and glue it down for good. Oh and a little side note you'll find like the rest of us have nothing is permanent on a model railroad things are always getting changed.

The only way your going to develop your track laying skills is by practicing the correct methods of doing it. Plain and simple no short cuts

Good luck with the new pike and have fun

I like to use Atlas sectional track (or any other brand of sectional track from train sets) as a starting point for my small (4x8 or less in HO) layouts.  I use full curves for any curved areas of more than 30 degrees curvature.  This allows consistent radius curves on the ends of the layout.  Flex track is used on any straight sections, and in any area with less than 30 degrees of curvature.  Atlas flex and sectional track matches just fine.  Cut the rail lengths of flex to fit with rail nippers, and trim up any remaining burrs with a file.

Taking care to get it right while laying track is important for derailment prevention.  Use fresh rail joiners.  Make sure your roadbed is smooth - sand the roadbed (cork needs sanding to be smooth!) as necessary to remove any ridges and irregularities.  I prefer Homasote as the roadbed because I can use track nails until I get around to ballasting, and because it's ideal for replacement of the sectional/flex with handlaid track later.  I put my eyeball at rail level and sight along the rails to detect any kinks (horizontal jogs in the rail).  I keep adjusting until I can't find any horizontal irregularities.  This is where using flex track instead of small "fitter" sectional pieces really pays off - it's almost impossible to get that perfect alignment without flex track.  The difficulty in getting perfect alignment is why I don't like track with built-in roadbed.  You are stuck with trying to achieve the correct alignment with a bunch of small fitter pieces.  The roadbed sanding should have eliminated most vertical problems, as long as track sections are properly joined.

As implied, I now use sectional and flex track to get trains running quickly.  I'll only lay enough to get things running for basic operations - an oval, passing siding, and a few spurs.  I even use a rerailer and screw terminal section to get off to a quick start.  Then when I'm ready, I'll replace this temporary track with detailed handlaid track.

just my thoughts and experiences

Fred W

Thanks for all the suggestions, they're very helpful. And sorry, I should have specified... I'm in the US, planning for HO scale. The basic idea of my layout is a simple oval with a cutoff that leads to industrial spurs (plan #13 from 101 Track Plans, with some modifications). I can see from playing around with this in Xtrkcad that getting everything to fit perfectly with sectional track will be fussy, so I'll probably at least use flextrack for the long stretch of the cutoff. I do see what people are saying about sectional pieces being overly regular, but I think I can live with that for this layout. Perhaps I'll also use flextrack on one of the main curves just to keep it from looking too perfect.

A question on the Atlas line... what exactly is the difference between the various Atlas switches/turnouts? There are the standard numbered turnouts (#4, #6, etc.), but also manual and remote snap switches, which I gather are also considered #4 or close to it. I'm not really clear on the various switching solutions out there. I've got no problem throwing switches manually for starters. But it would be nice to add better switch control later on. What are my options here, and how should they affect my choice of turnouts?

If you're new to the hobby, you're going to find laying out cork roadbed and cutting flex track to fit curves and such to be somewhat frustrating. If you decide you have to use flextrack, there are a couple of companies that make pre-curved roadbed sections that you can lay out first and then add the track to.

However I'd definetely recommend Unitrack. It's code 83 track like Atlas has, however Kato's rail is narrow and from what I can see pretty close to scale or "semi-scale" compared to the broad Atlas and Walthers code 83. Using Kato Unitrack is literally a "snap". It allows you to test out ideas in real space and see how it works...plus it will be easier than flextrack to move to the next layout. Curves come in seven radiuses from 16-7/8" to 31-1/8" for full sections, with shorter sections of 34-1/8" available for use with their no.6 turnouts. The turnouts come with a mechanism attached to operate them manually that is almost unnoticeable, and powered turnouts have the motor hidden in the roadbed unlike the big black box next to the Atlas powered turnouts.

tppytel:

A question on the Atlas line... what exactly is the difference between the various Atlas switches/turnouts? There are the standard numbered turnouts (#4, #6, etc.), but also manual and remote snap switches, which I gather are also considered #4 or close to it.

I'm not really clear on the various switching solutions out there. I've got no problem throwing switches manually for starters. But it would be nice to add better switch control later on. What are my options here, and how should they affect my choice of turnouts?

 Actually, the Atlas Snap Switch is not a numbered frog.  It is a 20 degree piece of 18" radius curve set 1.5" in from the end of a 9" straight.  The frog is curved and plastic.

Atlas CustomLine turnouts have straight frogs that are numbered.  The #4 is 12.5 degrees instead of the 14 degrees of a true #4, making it less sharp.  The curved portion of the turnout has a radius of approximately 22" to 24".  The #6 turnout has a 9.5 degree frog angle (Atlas rounds it to 10 degrees in their older literature), and the curved section has a radius of approximately 40".  These are not substitution radii, but the actual radius of the curved part between the points and frog.  Some CustomLine turnouts have metal frogs, some are metal with plastic coating (most #4s), and the older code 100 ones had black plastic frogs.

The simplest Atlas layouts use Snap Track and Snap Switches.  Their more complex layout plans use a combination of Snap Track, flex track in some places, and CustomLine turnouts.  Not surprisingly, the more flexible geometry of the flex track and CustomLine turnouts tend to permit more realistic track arrangements, parallel track spacing, and more realistic appearance - as compared to Snap Track and Snap Switches, because Atlas track is far from being the most realistic looking track around.  That said, Atlas track, especially the code 83 flex and Custom Line turnouts, is a reasonable compromise of cost, appearance, and performance.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W