General Discussion (Model Railroader)

I'm getting the train table ready once more for the Christmas season at home. Last night I put the old engine of my youth on the track and surprised myself and my wife. It actually took off and ran. This thing is at least 40 years old and has been packed in a box for probably 30 of those years. I usually get it out for set decoration. Well, here is the dilemma. It runs great in reverse, not so great in forward. It will run, but at some point it slows and then stops altogether. My first guess was to turn it around to be sure it wasn't the track. Track is ok. Please point me in the right direction. Is it perhaps time for a new motor? Thanks for any help and this forum is really neat. DaveC.

Dave: 

Could be any number of things.  Is it plastic?  Die-cast?  Brass?  Reason I ask is that there can be quite a few differences in the way the motor is connected to the gearbox.  Also, it probably needs a little lubing in the gears, if it hasn't been run in about 30 years or so.  

Also, is it an older open-frame motor or a 'can'?  On plastic or die-cast, the older open frame motors usually had the worm gear mounted at the end of the shaft, and yours might be pressing down too hard on the driver gear as the thrust increases when you run it forward, eventually slowing it down.  You might need to adjust the motor mounting a little. 

If it's a brass loco, the motor shaft was usually connected to the worm shaft with a piece of rubber tubing.  Sometimes the tubing will get out of alignment, causing the locomotive to run fine in reverse but 'wobbly' in forward.  Usually just a little tweaking of the tubing will cure that pretty well. 

But I would DEFINITELY say that after 30 years in a box, that lokie is due for some serious lubing.  And probably some wheel-cleaning. 

Hope this helps a little. 

Tom  

Tom, thanks for the quick reply. It is a Tyco, I believe it is diecast, as it is heavy compared to my other loco,s. The motor is open frame and I can see the worm gear without disassembly. I'm going to work on it this evening and see if I can get it working well in forward. It is great fun to watch it run. My grandson, Zack, went totally ape this morning when he came over and saw that PawPaw had all the tracks

running. A future railroader for sure!  Thanks again, DaveC.

P.S. what is good to use to lube this thing? Don't want to over do it.

 sometimes a bit of hair or lint will get wrapped around the armature shaft or axle and bind up after running for a short while.  of course, reversing it causes it to unwind and run freely for a while.

grizlump

Dave: 

I use Labelle gear grease for my locos.  It's a thick consistency, has silicone in it and is plastic compatable.  I usually apply it with a toothpick--about the size of a small bead.  Run it in one direction for about fifteen minutes, then reverse the direction.  Then add another small bit after it seems pretty well lubed and run it in both directions again.   That should pretty well do it.   

Grizlump has a very good point.  Check the gears or the motor shaft for any hair or dust that might have gotten wound up in it.  It happens, after years of not being used. 

Good luck.  Those diecast Mantua/Tyco locos are pretty indestructable. 

Tom

thanks to Tom and grizlump(sp?) I will check it out this weekend and let you know something monday if things aren't too busy at work. Enjoy your weekend, blessings, DaveC.

Investigate the electrical contact from engine to tender -- it could be loose and backing it up somehow tightens it more.  Also make sure there is not hair or gunk in the tender axles where the sides with the brass wheels are -- there might be a conductivity issue that is improved by shoving versus pulling. 

Here is a simple test - how does it do running upside down with wires touching the "hot" wheel treads or motor brushes?

Tinkering with how the motor is mounted to the frame (a single screw in those old Tyco/Mantuas) might resolve it -- but that is a mechanical matter while your description sounds more electrical. 

If the motor runs nicely in one direction I'd be real reluctant to swap it out until all possibilities have been explored and eliminated. 

Dave Nelson

Dave touched on a problem I found with some of my old Tyco steam engines, but mainly one I've found with the switchers. Remove the tender trucks (one at a time and make sure you put them back with the brass wheels on the same side) and buff the point on the frame and the top of the truck where they come together. I usually use a typing eraser. Remove the wire to the tender from the locomotive and do the same at the terminal lug.

If you're going to do a complete cleaning to it (recommended due to the years in storage), remove the boiler casting (2 screws from bottom below cab, 1 long screw through the stack) and using a can of spray tuner cleaner, clean out as much of the gunk as possible around the motor. I recommend doing this over a trash can. Put a drop of oil on each of the motor bearings. Remove the motor (one screw from below) and buff the points where the motor and frame come together, it touches around the mounting screw and an oval near the back of the motor. Also buff the bottom plate of the motor. Reverse steps to reassemble.

davec8656:

I'm getting the train table ready once more for the Christmas season at home. Last night I put the old engine of my youth on the track and surprised myself and my wife. It actually took off and ran. This thing is at least 40 years old and has been packed in a box for probably 30 of those years. Well, here is the dilemma. It runs great in reverse, not so great in forward. It will run, but at some point it slows and then stops altogether. My first guess was to turn it around to be sure it wasn't the track. Track is ok. Please point me in the right direction. Is it perhaps time for a new motor? Thanks for any help and this forum is really neat. DaveC.

Dave, you don't indicate the loco's maker but if lubing doesn't help, I'd say that your dilemma sounds to me very much like a classic problem encountered in some Tyco/Mantua steam engines. It occurs when the motor itself is tilted forward just the slightest bit too much. In that instance, the engine will always run great in reverse, but when going forward it either runs increasingly slower, or stalls after travelling just a foot, or two. This results from the worm actually climbing forward and over the drivewheel gear, forcing the drive shaft out of alignment. To check if this is indeed the problem, loosen the little bolt that holds the motor in place just a bit, then try running the loco and see if the situation improves. 

If so, the problem can usually be cured by adding one or two very thin shims  under the motor at, or just forward, of the point where it attaches to the locomotive's frame.

CNJ831

Thanks to everyone who responded to my query. It is a Tyco/Mantua 2-8-2 Mikado steam locomotive. My dad built it from a kit for me one Christmas many years ago. I helped him by doing some of the painting and,not being knowledgeable of electricity, painted where I should not have. I disassembled the loco this past weekend and found evidence of my past mistakes still there. I cleaned all the contact points for pickup from the tracks and after a few corrected mistakes, the loco runs good in both directions. Wow, what a project. Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advice. DaveC.

Glad to hear the Mikado is running well now -- I think some of us geezers or near-geezers have an almost emotional need to keep as many of the old Tyco/Mantua die cast engines running as possible.  They are as old as we are!  

The nameless people who did the original tool and die work on these engines really knew their craft.  Yeah, the detail of the new generation of die cast (and plastic) steam locomotives far exceeds the old Mantuas -- but will they still run in 20, much less 50 or 60, years?  I have my doubts.

Dave Nelson

CNJ831:

davec8656:

I'm getting the train table ready once more for the Christmas season at home. Last night I put the old engine of my youth on the track and surprised myself and my wife. It actually took off and ran. This thing is at least 40 years old and has been packed in a box for probably 30 of those years. Well, here is the dilemma. It runs great in reverse, not so great in forward. It will run, but at some point it slows and then stops altogether. My first guess was to turn it around to be sure it wasn't the track. Track is ok. Please point me in the right direction. Is it perhaps time for a new motor? Thanks for any help and this forum is really neat. DaveC.

Dave, you don't indicate the loco's maker but if lubing doesn't help, I'd say that your dilemma sounds to me very much like a classic problem encountered in some Tyco/Mantua steam engines. It occurs when the motor itself is tilted forward just the slightest bit too much. In that instance, the engine will always run great in reverse, but when going forward it either runs increasingly slower, or stalls after travelling just a foot, or two. This results from the worm actually climbing forward and over the drivewheel gear, forcing the drive shaft out of alignment. To check if this is indeed the problem, loosen the little bolt that holds the motor in place just a bit, then try running the loco and see if the situation improves. 

If so, the problem can usually be cured by adding one or two very thin shims  under the motor at, or just forward, of the point where it attaches to the locomotive's frame.

CNJ831

I encountered this problem back in about '79 with a Pacific mechanism on one of my Cary/Mantua conversions. I scratched my head over that one for the better part of two weeks before I spotted the problem--worm and worm gear were out of whack. My problem was compounded by the fact that the worm gear was slightly cockscrewey--only time I ever found that on any of the many Mantua mechanisms I ever assembled.