General Discussion (Model Railroader)

So I recieved the Presier 'Good Shed' figure set, and this included besides the figures some really nice pallet jacks (which resemble those made even today), and lift trucks (a little more wonky, but close enough to some prototypes.  It also includes some bales of something (OK), wooden barrels (GRRR), and wooden crates made of planks.
It got me wondering, those beloved plank crates of not just model railroading, but stage props, home storage decor, cartoons, etc - are they used in any significant percentage for actual shipping, as opposed to the nowadays common plywood crates (and equivalents)?
Obviously there are some plank crates in use, as I linked to one company offering them for shipping purposes, but they seem to be rare - more hybrids with thick panel sides and plywood lids - but still moe used compared to wooden barrels, which nowadays seem solely to be used for alcohol aging and transport, and home/garden/historic decorations (hence my growl - more useless wooden barrel models)...

yes we get most of our smaller rail car parts in wooden crate .

Whether a crate is lumber or ply seems to depend on two things-

• What's in the crate - wieght is a significant element.... but fragility can mean that real wood is used to give greater rigidity.
• size is also significant... ply crates are frequently less than 8'x4' on any one side - so to prove me wrong sometimes huge crates are made up of a strong framework clad with ply sheets... sometimes the sheets are bolted on with the heads visible... other times they are stapled on,

A lot of crates now have external metal skeletons of various kinds while others have plastic corner caps or strips covering the whole corner for all or some of the corners.

Many crates have built-in bottoms similar to pallets to allow handling with fork lift trucks and pump trucks.  These bottoms can be wood, plastic or metal.

Yet another variant I work with is a pallet with a huge, thick (cube shaped) cardboard box stapled to it.  These contain plastic tubes so their load is very light.  The sides are about 1" thick.  Some have fold-over tops while others have drop-over tops like a saucepan lid.

A bit outside the range of crates but similar and increasingly common are what we call IBCs = Intermediate Bulk Containers.  These are plastic cubes in a strengthening metal frame on a wood or metal pallet bottom.  The ones I see contain liquids but I think some are used for fine powders.

Then there's plastic bags of liquids in woven sacks inside various skeleton frames...

...and the one ton woven bags for stuff like sand... some have five solid sides and open top while others can have the bottom opened to "hopper-dump" their contents.

Hope this helps.

PS for completeness... some crates are used "in captive service" going round in circles.  These days most one-way pallets get flattened and put into RORO skips to be taken away for recycling... I'm told they get chipped...  So one scenic feature these days would be one of the skips part loaded with various crates and pallets lined up for breaking near it...

Dave-the-Train:

A lot of crates now have external metal skeletons of various kinds while others have plastic corner caps or strips covering the whole corner for all or some of the corners.

I definitely saw a lot of that style offered (the metal edged one - indeed, I think the image I linked too is that style) when I was googling wood crate shipping. - same w/ the pallet like bottoms. Still wondering if I can use bare metal foil strips to mimic the metal edges...

Yet another variant I work with is a pallet with a huge, thick (cube shaped) cardboard box stapled to it. 

Are those known as Gaylords?

The other variants you described I saw in google images, and are quite interesting, and (some at least) need to be modeled - probably will be offered by a boutique model firm as soon as I finish building some.  In particular, I have seen images of those giant 'bags' on pallets, not sure if they were loading Cocoa or cement, but looked interesting.

As for the pile of wooden plank crates of intermediate size that came w/ the presier kit, I'll think I'll take carknocker's advice, weather them up and pretend they're full of track replacement parts...

chutton01:

As for the pile of wooden plank crates of intermediate size that came w/ the presier kit, I'll think I'll take carknocker's advice, weather them up and pretend they're full of track replacement parts...

It does depend on era but...

Track replacement parts tend to come from the factory in shiney new crates.  These are often sand coloured wood with black metal corners.  Those that get kept for re-use or left laying about go grey and add rust.  I don't know what happens west of the wet stuff but a lot of replacement track elements are now made up at outdoor factories and taken to site ready made on special wagons.  I've seen pics of some US cars carrying whole switches.

Sorry!  This doesn't help your scheme.  I suppose that it depends on how many odd crates you have to find a use for... why not strap them down on the back of a flatbed truck?

Don't forget that crates get info stencilled on the and/or plastic pockets of bills stuck to them...or plastic labels.

The railway increasingly uses the 1 ton bags... most of them get shifted by hydraulic booms rather than on pallets.

 Having unloaded and opened my share while at HD, yes, they are still in use.  Of course ours came to the store via truck.

When I was working in a shipping area, we called those "cubes" on pallets "Tri-walls" because they have three layers/walls of corrigated cardboard.  We only had the ones that had the seperate lids.  We filled them with loose parts and other things that we could fit.  Throw in some padding, and then strap the lid down with two metal straps going through the pallet.  Making them was fun...  We had a large air powered staple gun with some nasty looking staples.  You could just reach the floor of the box...all while the box is trying to fold itself back up. 

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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Tomato products are shipped in them.

Bird's Eye View 

ericsp:

Tomato products are shipped in them.

Can't quite make out from that view if you mean fruits/vegatables (which I often see at the supermarket - these crates are usually slated, and so by necessity would be planks not plywood), or products such as tomato paste and ketchup (which seem to be more cardboard box bound)

I've found the responses so far to be interesting and informative, and probably quite helpful. I guess my view on freight containers, while tweaked with the cardboard boxes that MR mentioned in it's station article a few months back (also included the slated vegatable crates), actually started a few years back after seeing some episodes of 'How it's Made' and 'Dirty Jobs' dealing w/ wood barrels - and I realized that wood barrels, while on modern model railroads are seemingly everywhere, in fact seem to be fairly rare for actual shipping usage except for alcohol - more commonly they seem to be used for decorating purposes.

Look at it this way - this is a model railroading forum, if you're into modern freight railroading, then perhaps you should know what is actually loaded in those boxcars, Intermodal containers, and TOFC trailers...well, at least the crates and cartons that holding the lading, since that's what we normally see.

When I worked in a factory where we made machinery and fabricated metal assemblies, we used to lag-bolt them to a pallet base (made to the dimensions needed) and then with planks, build the crate around it.  As necessary for the item in the crate, sometimes the planking was "open", just protecting parts from being knocked off or damaged, other times we fabricated  solid box cover to be placed over the item and fastened to the pallet.  This may have been fabricated from planks or sheets of plywood.  Many heavy items are still lag-bolted to wood pallets but a heavy duty cardboard box placed over the top and nailed to the pallet.  Wood or cardboard, in most cases, plastic or metal straps are fastened around the whole crated assembly.

chutton01:

Look at it this way - this is a model railroading forum, if you're into modern freight railroading, then perhaps you should know what is actually loaded in those boxcars, Intermodal containers, and TOFC trailers...well, at least the crates and cartons that holding the lading, since that's what we normally see.

Nope!  I disagree! 

Most of the time we just see a box with the livery of the RR, trucking co or manufacturer.  Often the only times we get to see the load is when they are shifted in or out by forklift.  I can't think of many places where loaded crates are left outside... barrels - that is steel drums - and IBCs do get lined up outside both full and empty.  Most times I see crates outside for any length of time they are the empties either waiting to go back or be recycled. 

In the unusual event of one of the cardboard tri-walls being left out for long they usually fade to grey and start to flake by layers if the weather is dry.  If they get wet for long the top starts to sag in before collapsing and/or the sides collapse inwards... they do this from new condition to grey and flakey... but... because they aren't designed to be left out very long I've not seen this often... when seen they are more often "lost" behind other materials or "put by" behind buildings, containers or that sort of out-of-the-way place.  When degraded they are a real pain to get rid of... the soggy ones disintegrate and splodge all over everything including me while the dry ones (having lulled me into a false sense of security) fall apart, blow shreds all over the place and dump any contents... which is invariably yeuky and eager to slop through the pallet beneath.

Then again... all these are details that would be great small projects for detailing a layout.

I totally agree on the inappropriateness of wood barrels on most modern layouts and would love to see some of these more modern aspects.

How about going further and looking at the variety of pallets and, even, stackable pallets?

Dave-the-Train:

Most of the time we just see a box with the livery of the RR, trucking co or manufacturer.  Often the only times we get to see the load is when they are shifted in or out by forklift.  I can't think of many places where loaded crates are left outside... barrels - that is steel drums - and IBCs do get lined up outside both full and empty.  Most times I see crates outside for any length of time they are the empties either waiting to go back or be recycled. 

I disagree - as the link to the tomato crates above demostrates, it's not unusual to see freight in yards (around NY, behind secure, locked gates and fences w/ razor wire strands, of course), sometimes under open air shelters build alongside a building, sometimes piled onto loading docks (although not the helter skelter style favored for 'old-time' freight stations/good shed models), but stacks of palletized crates & boxes, sacks, barrels, etc. under a covered dock is common enough - I'm sure I've even seen this in images from the UK (for truck/lorry docks, alas), on that 'abandoned station' site for example.

splodge

Last time I saw this word was in an old copy of Mayfair - wasn't referring to cardboard cartons, I'm afraid.  Anyway, take some small rectangles of styrene, paint tan or brown, muck some corners up, and lean against or in a dumpster/tip.

I totally agree on the inappropriateness of wood barrels on most modern layouts and would love to see some of these more modern aspects.

Luckily steel drums have been around since WWI, and more or less in their present state, so we are very well covered in that regards.  The other 2 common barrel-like are fiberboard drums (AFAIK no models readily available, but these are mostly tan/brown cylinders with alumimun/metal lids and bottoms) and plastic drums (these are tough - most barrels cannot be easily modified to have the shape of plastic drums - here I'm a bit stymied, as carving one out as a master for casting could be a chore (and carving several out instead of casting them would be madness). Kegs are available from Presier.

How about going further and looking at the variety of pallets and, even, stackable pallets?

Actually, I did go further, looked into the various pallets styles (US styles, including supermarket ones), and made a jig for the most common type, and then made about 75 of them from styrene strip (this did lead to madness - or at least it often seems that way...).

chutton01:

Yet another variant I work with is a pallet with a huge, thick (cube shaped) cardboard box stapled to it. 

Are those known as Gaylords?

 

Yes they are. Sometimes instead of a pallet the box is stapled to a plastic bottom with plastic feet that resemble a pallet. Much lighter than wood, but not near as sturdy or easy to move when full.

chutton01:

ericsp:

Tomato products are shipped in them.

Can't quite make out from that view if you mean fruits/vegatables (which I often see at the supermarket - these crates are usually slated, and so by necessity would be planks not plywood), or products such as tomato paste and ketchup (which seem to be more cardboard box bound)

 

It would be processed tomato products. That is a Campbell's plant. If you scroll down and to the right, you can see the water tower resembles a giant soup can. If you rotate the view, you can see the logo.

Here is a street level view of some at the Con-Agra plant in Oakdale. 

 They sure are, though they never see the light of day between shipper and recipient. They're most likely stored within the confines of an intermodal container.

 As for pallets, wanna know why containers come in sizes of 20, 40, 45, 48 and 53 foot sizes? It's so they can accommodate multiples of wooden pallets.