Steam & Preservation

 Now we find that Green Bay wants more money from the Friends of the 261. Unfortunately, the perception that steam engines make lots of money may lead NRM to assume they can raise their fees significantly. Tourist trains don't make money! (period). With the insurance and fuel and maintenance cost skyrocketing it is amazing that there are any tourist trains out there. I urge you to contact Green Bay and tell them to back off and appreciate the free advertising they get from all the effort the Friends of the 261 make on their behalf.

I'm aware of some, but certainly not all, of the details that have occured in these lease renewal negotiations.  Other than a perceived need for funds to support the Museum, I don't understand how the NRM came to believe the lease was worth anything approaching what they were asking.  They must think the engine should be operated nearly daily.  I doubt the demand for that exists in the Twin Cities, and it certainly could not be done as a volunteer operation as is the case now.

If the NRM takes the engine back, it will just sit in their open train shed and collect bird droppings.  That doesn't seem to me to align very well with what should be NRM's mission.      

 Business folks who are on museum boards don't understand the economics of museums. They do things like depreciate assets on the books. They seem to think that the reason they have a collection is for profit.

And as you say NRM has no clout in this negotiation. If they go too far, they end up with no money and a static display locomotive. I can assure you that no one else is standing in the aisle waiting to run the 261. And there are other locomotives "the friends" could use. 

This is what happens when we hear the negotiations for the latest 3rd baseman for the Yankees. Make unreasonable demands and settle on unreasonable amounts. Then hope the fans will sit in your $1000 seats. 

Dakguy201:

I'm aware of some, but certainly not all, of the details that have occured in these lease renewal negotiations.  Other than a perceived need for funds to support the Museum, I don't understand how the NRM came to believe the lease was worth anything approaching what they were asking.  They must think the engine should be operated nearly daily.  I doubt the demand for that exists in the Twin Cities, and it certainly could not be done as a volunteer operation as is the case now.

If the NRM takes the engine back, it will just sit in their open train shed and collect bird droppings.  That doesn't seem to me to align very well with what should be NRM's mission.      

I think Dakguy is right on target.

From Wikipedia's piece(in part) on the 261:

"...The certification process will take place during 2008 until Spring 2010 (the time may vary due to unforeseen complications or other circumstances - all work has ceased pending lease renewal with the NRM in Green Bay). See the Friends of the 261's website for more details..."

I do not know who is doing their negotiating, but they (NRM) have certainly started from a questionable position.

THe locomotive may be the Museum's property, but it is the hard work and goodwill of the "Friends of the 261" that has made their program the quintecential "how to run a program" of campaigning a historical loco.

Too bad NRM is being a little stiff...

          I'm still 50/50 on the chance she'll ever run again. But I want it to happen!

I think it's quite true that 261 is not a great moneymaker. I'm blanking on his name right now, but the head mechanical engineer for the Friends of 261 came and spoke to a club I belong to last winter. He said that a successful fan trip was one that broke even or only had a moderate loss. He said the only reason they came out even at the end of the year - after deducting any fantrip losses and costs for running and maintaining 261 - was that the Friends of 261 owns a fleet of vintage passenger cars that have been restored and most importantly upgraded to meet all Amtrak standards. These cars can then be leased out for excursions behind other engines (4449) or by other groups, or even by private businesses or families for excursions.

 Penny-wise and pound foolish, except there are no pennies to be had, that leaves foolish. This parsing over a nickle accomplishes some perversely masochistic goals.

1.Alienate the railfan community.

2. Eliminate free national advertising for a museum out in "the boondocks"

3.Remove one of a handful national historic locomotive from service

Brilliant. What is next? Scrapping their collection and diversifying into stamp collecting because it is more profitable?

To say they are not the brightest bulbs on the block is an understatement.  What is their strategic upside? Simple. There is none. Perhaps one of their annual Christmas cards should portray Scrooge as their grand strategist and public face. Who is on their board? Moe Larry or Curly? I wouldn't  donate a dime to this bunch to save my own life. I suggest others do the same. What are we supporting? The Bad News Bears? Their other claim to fame? A dime a dozen rusting GG1? How about "The museum that eliminates living history ?" You cant make this stuff up, no one would believe it.

As Previously stated, I think Dakguy nailed it, and Wallyworld put the icing on the cake!  I would hope that someone NRM would drop the koolaid, and take a breath of reality.

    Do they really want a couple of cars of scrap to display?  The "Friends" took an exhibit of a beautiful locomotive, and breathed life into it, rolling history into communities that would never again experience the sounds, smells and the shear presence of a large, living steam locomotive, not to mention the imprinting on the kids of a real, tactile piece of history.

 TheMuseum would have had 'bupkis' without the knowhow and skills of the "Friends of the 261", Surely there should be some way to pursuade the NRM that the publicity that just the operational existance of the 261 brings them is surely worth working thru this.

I'm about half sorry I've already gotten my Christmas Cards for this coming season.  

  Hope they won't be the last. 

 My understanding is that NRM will not even get back a working locomotive, as it was restored to operation using a number of borrowed parts.  Those will have to be returned to their owners.

  Also shes in pieces and I dont think the Friends will put it back togther out of the goodness of their hearts. I know a few of them and they are still hoping something good will happen ( me too!) But lets not hold our breaths.

  Dak and Wally well said and bravo!

It is on the Newswire today that the Museum has made a final (take it or leave it) offer with a short time frame for response. 

Newswire has reported they were turned down.

Sandberg told the NRM he rejected the latest offer because, "At this point, our organization has lost too much time on the overhaul of the locomotive and almost four years discussing the lease extension. The mechanical requirements of the locomotive and the risk associated with running mainline steam are too high at this time to consider such an investment."

It's been awhile since I've seen the 261 in action. I moved from my home state in '05. When the 261 was on the move there were a lot of people following her. She was awsome to see. Personally I believe the Friends of 261 have a lot of leverage with her sitting in pieces. The museum wants a complete engine and the Friends want to run her. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of deal made. It would be a loss to all of us if the 261 died. Clearly all steam engines are nationl treasures considering the roll they played in our nations growth.