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Last post 11-05-2009 9:26 PM by Lyon_Wonder. 10 replies.
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10-29-2009 12:28 AM
Offline Lyon_Wonder
Not Ranked
Joined on 09-28-2005
Posts 709

TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

The original Toledo Peoria & Western was a regional railroad in Illinois and Indiana and aquired by ATSF in the early 1980s.  By the mid-1980s the TP&W was fully incorporated into the ATSF with it’s EMD GP30/35/38-2s and a single GP40 repainted into ATSF colors.  The TP&W’s incorporation into the ATSF was short-lived and in 1989 the TP&W trackage was spun off again.  The TP&W was reborn.  The current TP&W is now owned by Railamerica, with locos now painted into the shortline/regional operator’s red, white and blue colors.  I’m wondering since ATSF and later BNSF kept the former TP&W EMDs which are still on their roster, could the TP&W be considered a BNSF heritage railroad along with ATSF, BN, Frisco, CB&Q, GN, NP and the SP&S? 

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=106101

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=89400&nseq=9

 

Like, if BNSF pulls a UP and have heritage-themed locos, should the TP&W be included too?  The CB&Q and later BN also had the C&S and FWR subsidiaries, though I guess those wouldn’t count since their diesels were always in CB&Q or BN paint and markings with the C&S or FWD reporting marks in small letters, sort of like IC or GTW locos in CN paint. 

 

       

10-29-2009 2:11 AM In reply to
Offline silicon212
Not Ranked
Joined on 12-16-2004
Mesa, AZ
Posts 706

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

Since the TP&W is not officially a fallen flag, I don't think it would qualify as a 'heritage' paint job on a locomotive if the BNSF were to do such a thing.  It's now a separate road again.

10-29-2009 5:30 AM In reply to
Offline CShaveRR
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on 06-27-2001
Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
Posts 8,861

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

The likelihood of that would be about the equivalent of UP doing a Durango & Silverton or Cumbres & Toltec locomotive.

Or, even if TP&W were still a part of BNSF, the likelihood would be about the same as Litchfield & Madison, CGW, Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf, or Spokane International, and probably less likely than SSW or Texas & Pacific.
10-29-2009 8:51 AM In reply to
Offline SSW9389
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 07-29-2001
Shelbyville, Kentucky
Posts 1,440

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

Has anyone asked Rail America if they would do a TP&W heritage unit? Just a thought for now. The below photo was taken very near the end of the old TP&W before it was merged into Santa Fe. Note the apparent Santa Fe horn on top of TP&W 2011.

10-29-2009 8:53 AM In reply to
Offline gabe
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 03-15-2004
Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts 2,361

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

I think the TP&W is something the BNSF would rather forget . . . had they not been distracted by it, they could have purchased a Rock Island line to Memphis that might have actually been useful . . .

By the way, as a Litchfield and Madison lover, you can imagine who honored I am to see it used in the same sentence as CGW, Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf . . .

Gabe

10-29-2009 10:11 AM In reply to
Offline CSSHEGEWISCH
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 12-21-2001
Burbank IL (near Clearing)
Posts 5,397

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

I'm not sure when it started, but I remember TP&W as a joint ATSF/PRR (50% each) subsidiary.  ATSF later bought out the PRR(PC) share and absorbed TP&W directly into ATSF, probably to use it as a Chicago bypass.  The abandonments by Conrail of various Big Four and Panhandle lines in Indiana pretty much left TP&W as a bypass to nowhere.

10-29-2009 11:03 AM In reply to
Offline bn13814
Not Ranked
Joined on 07-15-2006
Posts 89

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

TP&W was merged with Santa Fe January 1, 1984 to February 2, 1989 so while there's some heritage there, it would hardly qualify for a Heritage Unit, however, TP&W is historically tied to BNSF predecessor CB&Q. It's first line - Peoria to Burlington, Iowa via Galesburg - was completed by the Peoria & Oquawka in 1857 (that east of Galesburg, anyway). Financial problems led to receivership then lease and eventual purchase by the CB&Q in 1864. By then, however, P&O had built its Eastern Extension from Peoria to the Indiana State Line. Receivership led to reorganization and adoption of the TP&W name ("Toledo, Peoria & Warsaw"). The railroad constructed its "West End" by 1868.

TP&W was eventually acquired jointly by the CB&Q and Pennsylvania in 1893, an arrangement that remained until another period of receivership in 1925. George P. McNear gained control in 1927 and modernized the property, but poor labor relations led to long and frequent strikes, or threats of strike. During WW2, TP&W was the sole carrier placed under federal control due to labor troubles. McNear regained control of the carrier following the war, but then died from an assassin's bullet. New management under J. Russel Coulter brought the TP&W to prosperity, so much that it attracted the attention of the M&StL. To prevent M&StL from acquiring the carrier, the Santa Fe and Pennsylvania Railroads proposed joint control, which TP&W's stockholders (mostly McNear family) accepted. M&StL lost its battle at the ICC, in federal court and ultimately, the US Superme Court, which in December 1959 upheld ICC's original 1957 decision in favor of Santa Fe-Pennsy.

The Santa Fe purchased TP&W in January 1960 and immediately sold 50% to the Pennsy. An eleven-member Board of Directors was elected in March 1960. The NYC-Pennsy merger of 1968 gave Penn Central control of 50% of the TP&W, but kept it following the 1976 Conrail merger. Santa Fe purchased PC's shares in July 1979. With ICC approval, Santa Fe began full control of TP&W in March 1981, and dissolved its Board of Directors.

Suddenly, things went badly for the TP&W. The Rock Island's liquidation had already caused a significant loss of trafifc, but Conrail's June 1981 cancellation of interline tariffs with TP&W via Logansport, Indiana obliterated most of the road's overhead traffic, forcing the carrier to downsize its operations and workforce. Bankruptcy loomed and so Santa Fe decided to merge TP&W into its system.

After gaining independence on February 3, 1989, TP&W remained tied to Santa Fe, and also grew close to CB&Q successor Burlington Northern, with which it signed a haulage agreement for intermodal traffic moving between Bushnell and the new (1983) intermodal facility at Remington, Indiana. TP&W gained trackage rights on BN's Galesburg - Peoria line, the original Peoria & Oqauwka, as part of a deal to keep it out of the BNSF merger case. Operations began in early 1996.

The TP&W-BNSF intermodal partnership ended in early 2004, but this year, BNSF Logistics designated TP&W's East Peoria and Remington (IN) terminals as staging facilities for wind turbine components. TP&W continues to handle BNSF carload freight between Galesburg and Peoria.

10-29-2009 2:56 PM In reply to
Offline Victrola1
Not Ranked
Joined on 12-28-2001
Posts 303

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

 What about a Peoria & Oquawka heritage locomotive? It would be an open palate paint scheme for a diesel.

11-05-2009 6:12 PM In reply to
Offline SFbrkmn
Not Ranked
Joined on 07-13-2006
KS
Posts 557

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

11-05-2009 7:57 PM In reply to
Offline mudchicken
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 12-24-2001
Denver / La Junta
Posts 5,514

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

SFbrkmn:

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

SFb: Wander into La Junta at all?... The one spot/ locomotive covered pit steel building you see out at the top of the yard on  the north side (north of the depot) began life as the TP&W Peoria paint shop.

11-05-2009 9:26 PM In reply to
Offline Lyon_Wonder
Not Ranked
Joined on 09-28-2005
Posts 709

Re: TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

SFbrkmn:

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

 

TP&W's sole GP40 ended up on ATSF's roster as #2964, making it the only GP40 on the roster.  Unfortunately this single GP40 was destroyed in a collision at Pico Rivera, CA on January 28, 1988.  ATSF and later BNSF have 10 GP40Xs, which are pre-production GP50s with the 645F.  And of course BNSF has former BN GP40 rebuilds.

http://atsf.railfan.net/gp40

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