General Discussion (Classic Trains)

Out here in California, one type of train I always thought was "Classic" were the seasonal movements of the long trains of refrigerator cars of California produce heading from the Sacramento, San Joaquin and Salinas Valleys east over the Sierra Nevada, especially on the SP Donner Pass route between Roseville CA to Ogden UT, where trains were turned over to either the UP (mainly) or the Rio Grande for their journeys to the midwest and eastern markets. 

The 'Reefer Extras' generally started in late spring and early summer and extended well into the Fall, depending on the maturing season for various California produce.   During the steam era, one could watch the trains in the Sierra from alternate Highway 40, and see an AC cab-forward 4-8-8-2 heading the train (often with a 2-8-0 running as helper), and a long line of orange reefers following, mostly PFE, but often blocks of cars from midwest roads (ART, Burlington) or northwest roads (GN, NP, Milwaukee), or even a smattering of Santa Fe (SP's biggest California fruit competitor).  Sometimes there would be another 4-8-8-2 cut into the middle of the train, and if you were lucky, additional 4-8-8-2's cut in just in front of the caboose.  These trains ran on passenger schedules, fast and frequent. 

During the height of the 'season', you could see at least ten of these trains flashing by every day.  SP took their produce handling seriously.  Thay ALWAYS had "Green" blocks in front of them.  And they were always solid 'fruit' blocks.  No other cars in the consist, just those orange and yellow Reefers.  Well, some of the cars were pretty dirty from loco exhaust (SP always said it was from UP's coal smoke when they turned the trains over in Ogden, since SP locos burned oil).  But let me tell you, those 'orange' trains charging through the green Sierra Nevada forests were a sight to see. 

Classic?  Hoo boy, yes.  At least for this then youngster watching them. 

Tom    

For me, 'Classic' always brings up images of 1950s, early 60s passenger trains with F units where steam is slowly going the way of the dinosaur. It is just not the same seeing F unit diesels on freight train photos from say the 1970s in comparison. I have always thought of the steam era as just that, or more like 'old time railroading'. A play with words perhaps. Also for me classic railroading also personifies an era when trains were more in the public imagination than today. It was amazing all the varieties of passenger trains/railroad colors that were around before Amtrak standardized it all and so many railroads merged into all the monolithic ones of today.

In my opinion,a classic freight train would be anything pre intermodal. A pure classic train would be one from the pre PC-BN, EMD-2 era.And of course it would HAVE to have a caboose.(except on the FEC).

Although we tend to think of steam engs, dome cars, Pullman Company and fallen rrs of way back when in classic terms,  anything of a classic nature is over 20 yrs old--one generation. This post is being written on 10/8/09. Any rr event prior to 10/8/89 would be considered classic event. Think of this: the 1988 mergers of SP/SSW into Rio Grande and Katy/UP are now classic rr events. Come 20 yrs from now in 2029, we will be yaking about the classicrr events of the first decade of the 21st century

But I saw a classic (and classy) train today...10-8-09!  It was the NS inspection train in sharp tuscan red with gold lettering pulled  by a classic set of F units in A-B-B-A combination and classic SR paint scheme.  Classic is actually timeless...no matter when.

SPs sugar beet trains were definately classic trains,especially before the steel hoppers started arriving!

I agree that NS inspection train that you described is a classic train running today!    Ditto when the UP couples 844 ahead of a pure Armour yellow and brown matched consist.   And if the Nebraska Zephyr is in good enough condition with its E5 at Union, and runs at speed on a class one railroad, that would also be a classic train.   Indeed, except for the power, the Canadian is a classic train.  But the power spoils it. 

Enjoyed your posting on having an American railroad for a garden railroad in England. I think, and this is not a professional opinion that a "Classic" train in the U.S. generally pertains to some passenger trains from the great era of named trains such as The 20th Century Ltd, The Super Chief, The Crescent Ltd, The East Coast Champion and The Silver Meteor. Most railroads had some named trains (varnish) at the top of their list of passenger trains. Freight trains are sometimes considered classics,e.g., the "Banana" trains from New Orleans to Fulton, Kentucky and thence to the cities in the U.S. I suppose that "classic" trains is probably thought of by people of my age (71) who traveled by train in their salad days. I rode the East Coast Champion, The Silver Meteor, The Ponce de Leon, and several locals back in the South and in the North. Which railroad are you using for equipment in your garden railroad? I taught in Scotland on a Fulbright back in the 1970's and traveled a lot on British Rail and on several steam outings while I lived in Glasgow. All the best, Michael Post Scriptum: "No matter where you go, there you are." Bucaroo Banzai.

Greetings Mike,

We are much the same age. My model is based on a ficticious short line which somehow manages to link with the D&RGW and MILW.  (Must be around Omaha I guess). Motive power is RS3's: D&RGW (1) and MILW(2), Two ten wheelers and two small switchers also are in the pike.

The picasaweb link in my signature will give you a glimpse of it.

You will see I live at the other end of this island to Scotland   

 

 

 

 

I would define Classic Trains as railroad owned passenger trains.  Passenger rail travel probably peaked in the years leading up to WWI.  After WWI there was a long decline as passenger service declined on the small roads, branches, and mainlines.  For many small railroads and branch lines it usually ended with the loss of the mail contract.  1971 and Amtrak marks the end of the era (although a few, notably Southern and Rio Grande continued some service for a few years afterward).

For freight it is loose car railroading, the boxcar, and cabooses.  During the classic era the trains were mostly mixed types with boxcars dominating and each car going to it's own destination.  The exceptions were coal trains, refrigerator trains, and tank car trains - but these car types were common in mixed freight trains also. Cabooses were the norm on trains.  IMHO the coming of the trailer trains and container trains along with the loss of cabooses mark the end of the classic freight era probably somewhere in the 70's.  Although Virginia waited until 1988 to repeal it's caboose law, the era was over by then.

A more refined definition of eras is in John Armstrong's book Creative Layout Design.

Enjoy

Paul