General Discussion

The last few weeks, there have been some huge trains leaving Neenah, Wi. on the CN heading north towards Stevens Point. With the CN having a limit of 150 cars or 10,000 feet (which ever came first), that seems not to be the norm for northbounds leaving Neenah. I heard on the scanner of trains of 160, 170, 180 and 190 cars after a pick-up there. Couple of locals have seen monster 200 car trains leave Neenah also. After listening to the scanner, Train A447 was departing Neenah with 67 loads and 134 empties for 201 cars!!!! The units was common stuff, typical GE and SD. Of course I had to leave and get ahead of him to see my very first 200 car train. Took me about 30 some years of train watching to do so but I finally did.

For the people up towards Superior, does the CN limit the northbounds to 150/10,000 or is that scratched like down here? The southbounds still have those restrictions.

I'm surprised that the topography of northern Wisconsin would be conducive to running such long trains without DPU's. I've only ran a few trains over 10000' (they were all southbounds out of Butler to Proviso, and ironically they were CN detour trains due to a track blockade by Native Americans in Canada), and other than the train-handling difficulty between Butler and St. Francis (no dynamics on the CN power--lots of fun coming down West Allis hill), operating the trains on the relatively flat terrain south of St. Francis was no big deal.  I can't imagine trying to run something that long up in the hilly land of Wisconsin.

Hopefully the CN is blocking the trains so that the loads are on the head end; otherwise we will someday be hearing about them on the news.

When I was passing-through Ladysmith, WI a couple Fridays ago, the one train I did see on the trip was a northbound CN container train and it had 5 matching units leading it.  I wasn't in a position to count cars but it did seem to take a long time to cross.  I was over snapping 35mm film on the old SOO F unit #500 and passenger cars on the spur west of the north-south main.

zardoz:

I'm surprised that the topography of northern Wisconsin would be conducive to running such long trains without DPU's. I've only ran a few trains over 10000' (they were all southbounds out of Butler to Proviso, and ironically they were CN detour trains due to a track blockade by Native Americans in Canada), and other than the train-handling difficulty between Butler and St. Francis (no dynamics on the CN power--lots of fun coming down West Allis hill), operating the trains on the relatively flat terrain south of St. Francis was no big deal.  I can't imagine trying to run something that long up in the hilly land of Wisconsin.

Hopefully the CN is blocking the trains so that the loads are on the head end; otherwise we will someday be hearing about them on the news.

Most of these Goliath-esque trains have either DPUs to get them on their way, or(more commonly) mid train helpers, as I've seen two trains use that method over the past month or so. The Northbounds out of Superior have been at or around 10,000 feet, with a few jumping into 12,000 territory. These monsters get aid up Steelton Hill via the EJ&E units working up here. I believe it's 665 right now that's equipped with a link box that allows the crew to cut off on the fly at the apex of the hill. 

Talking to WC engineers they have been starting to use DPU's and some mid train helpers to get those monster trains across the road. As far as the Peg goes, (former Duluth, Winnipeg and Pacific, which is where those trains go en route to Canada) the sky is the limit the monster trains just get shoves from two SD38-2's up Steelton Hill out of the Lake Superior Basin, so there is no limit there.

Here are some of the helper equipped trains:

J units shoving a train up the beginning of the hill.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=287334&nseq=9

Some of the different helpers over the years:

Missabe

B&LE

WC & B&LE

Missabe

IC

So you're stuck at the crossing and the kids are counting cars, eyes getting wider and wider....

I was in Rantoul, IL, one night when a southbound of unit hoppers crept into town.  The two Geeps (I'm pretty sure they were just 4 axle power) were pretty much on their knees, but soldiered on. 

I counted the cars for some reason.  A normal unit train north or south ran to near 100 cars.  While I no longer remember the exact car count, I do remember that it was obviously two unit trains worth of empties, thus very nearly 200 cars.

Southbound coming into Rantoul there is a bit of a grade.  It showed.

To make matters worse, I think it was while they were rebuilding an overpass in town, for which reason ICG had built a short shoofly on pilings, resulting in a slow order.

This talk of long trains reminds me of something I heard on my scanner back about '88 or '89. I think this was about the time CP started running trains over a mile long.

The Red Der Sub. portion of the Edmonton-Calgary line is almost flat and you could run big trains with not too much power. But the dynamics of the business were changing to put as much train on with as much power as you had available.

So anyway, the engineer on a southbound grain train calls the Calgary Yardmaster about which track should he go to when he gets to Alyth. The YM comes up and asks how many cars, and what's your length. The engineer says blah blah cars and 72 hundred something feet. The YM keys his mike, and just as he is about to talk he just bursts out laughing, and the air goes dead. After about twenty or thirty seconds he comes back on the air, and while still barely able to contain himself he tells the engineer to wait while he figures something out. The unspoken thing being, what do you expect me to do with a train that size. I remember that exchange being the funniest thing I had heard all that day.

For readers familiar with Calgary operations, they eventually sent him down the west leg of the Red Deer Sub. wye toward the Calgary station and they would break up the train into manageable size pieces later.

I guess twenty years later this sort of thing is old hat now.

AgentKid

346 is the only train that uses DPU's, and they run mid-train. My papa bear has 346 today.... 18,000 tons of freight, 140 some loads and not sure how many empties he said. Not sure on the 150/10,000 limits, I'll ask him when he gets back.

18,000 tons is one heck of a load though.

CP is now combining 2 unit grain trains into 1 with multiple dpu locations (I believe, h/e, mid, t/e) on territories that they deem this operation as safe. So we are talkin' 14,000' and > 20,000 t.

Now a days, 8,000' - 9,000' is almost the norm in my neck of the woods.

Back in the early 90s there was a time that I worked daytime at a Napa auto parts near what was the Barlows grocery store in NW Rochester Minnesota. It was just south of the DM&E line. After I was done there I went across the tracks and worked at a Pizza Hut on NW 7th street. It was just north of the tracks. Of course I would notice the trains but I couldn't stop to watch them. Yes it was a pain to get stuck at the crossing when you have bags full of warm pizzas and customers waiting for you. Now and then they were running 180, 200, 210 car freights westbound late in the evening. Lets see, 200 car train going a slow 15 mph takes up about 8 minutes of your precious time.

Last night (9-3) A452 left Neenah at about 165 cars, 12,000+ tons but only 9700 feet. A447 left Neenah later in the evening at 199 cars but I didn't hear his totals also caught a core train with 137 cars. 

The CN must have scrapped the 150 car limit and stuck with the 10,000 foot mark down on this side of the railroad.

I have never seen a Northbound train with DP power unless it the Wausau coal trains.

 They have run southbounds out of Pokey with DPU's.

Soo 6604:

I have never seen a Northbound train with DP power unless it the Wausau coal trains.

Since you mentioned it, I haven't heard a coal train go up to Wausau for awhile now.

I know CN runs southbounds with DPU power. I usually see M346 with the extra units but also twice now i've seen a combined Sulphur and grain/potash combined going southbound thru Neenah.

I remember seeing a C701 (maybe) coal loads northbound with 2-1 DPU about a month ago.

WSOR is limited to 150 cars, 14,000 trailing tons over the CN.  Been close to that some days on the HJ.  We usually run into the tonnage limit before the number of cars, mostly loads coming south.