Layouts and layout building

 I am trying to decide on either a helix or nolix for going down to a second level for both staging and actual two level construction.  My layout will be two 22 foot tables 24 inches wide connected to a 9 foot table on the end.  Actually simply put i have a 9 by 24 foot room available.  I model ho and will be placing the helix if that is what i decide on at one end of a 22 foot leg.  Is a drop of 11 inches satisfactory for a multilevel operation.  I know it is for a staging yard.  The commercial helixes available are  by ashlin and drop 11 inches in 2 and one half turns.  i know also easy helix seems to make a plastic helix but also costs more money.  A nolix needs 48 feet to drop 12 inches at a 2% grade.  I would probably do this with woodland scenics incline sets.  All advise wil  be heartily apprectiated.  Brian Chaney

11" isn't much headroom between levels if they're 24" wide. Somewhere around a 1:1 ratio seems to work better. My layout benchwork (pre-made shelving material) is 16" wide and I use around 14" separation.

BTW I'm not connecting the two levels. Don't overlook the possibility of building two separate layouts at different levels. They could be representing different railroads, or different geographic areas...could even be in different scales.

Double level layouts have their own quirks compared to single level.  Separation is one and operating height is another.  Either the top one is high or the bottom one is low.  best bet is to make a mock up and adjust the levels using c clamps or some other means to determine what is right for you.  You can rest assured some short guy or some tall guy is going to complain.  That will be when you tell them if they don't like it you know where the door is. If you decide you need a little more separation why not use the 2 1/2 turn helix and a nolix on one side for more difference between the levels.  I would not go smaller than 30" radius in HO for the helix.  the bigger you make the radius the lower the grade % will be and the better it will operate.

Just my limited experience, but I mocked up my planned height and came out with measurements to base construction of my two level layout.

In the end, the upper level was a good height for viewing while standing, and I bought a mechanic's stool for viewing the lower level. The separation ended up being 20" and the max width of my shelves will be 20" on the upper level and 24" on the lower.

The stool has four caster wheels and the seat adjusts in height very similar to an office chair. You can roll along with the train when it's on the lower level and walk along when it's up top.

I highly recommend a mock up to test comfortable heights and shelf widths. Remember that there will be scenery above each base level, so allow for that, both in width that can be easily reached, and to allow for any vertical scenery (both up and down) on both levels.

Due to limited space I plan to use an elevator to change levels, short trains will accomodate this.

 Thanks for the input so far.  I may now just decide to use the second level for a staging yard.  For anyone else that has a lower level staging yard how much below the main level is it and how did you acheive the drop.  Thanks in advance  Brian

 Hi Brian,

I have a spare bedroom which is 9 by 11.  Into this bedroom I put a 30 inch outer radius and 27 inch inner radius helix in HO gauge.  Up this helix a AC4400 from Kato is good to pull about 13 Athearn Bethgon gondolas by itself around the outer loop.  This 6 loop double track helix connects three levels.  Each level is 12 inches apart while the upper shelf is 12 inch wide, middle shelf is 18 inch wide and the bottom is 24 inch wide.  Along with this is one more loop that goes down to hidden staging.  This staging still has to be build.  Concentrating on scenery right now which is where an issue has come up.  The mine and grain elevator are both too tall to fit into the center shelf.  The structures are about 11 inch high and being that the levels are 12 inches apart means that I also loose about 2 inches for the support for the scenery.  This narrow shelf spacing also makes it difficult for the installation of bridges.  Mind you my next layout-if possible-will be two levels with 20 inch seperation.  This way it is possible to install any building I desire and still have some space above the structure, and have bridges as well.

I hope this helps.

Frank 

Good questions Biran.

A nolix is far more visually interesting (assuming that the helix is hidden and parts of the nolix are not) but does take up a lot of length.  I would (and did) use cookie cutter rather than the inclines. It's cheaper, sturdier and just as easy.  My upper level is 14" above the lower and connects with both a helix and a nolix. 11" should work for you.

Present day:

ca 8000 BC:

Good luck!

Karl

Track Spiral(s):

You could employ a spiral in a layout corner to quickly gain altitude.  Track spirals are very compatible with a nolix, or; even a helix to reduce the number of helix turning levels.

While a helix gains altitude vertically using the same exact repetitive track radius -- the track spiral as it gains height -- either expands its radius, or reduces its radius, as it gains altitude because it is not directly over each curved track level..

A simple spiral example:  At a layout end with a dogbone design, that dogbone slowly elevates ending up as an overpass, by going over the dogbone straight-part entry track, instead of coming back as a reverse loop on the same elevation level.

Depending upon your scenery theme, track spirals are also a good way to use bridges and brief tunnels and portals.

You guys confuse me.  I thought we were speaking about getting from deck to deck on multi-deck layouts here, not single-deck layouts.  Guess not.

Mark

I would recommend that you draw a quick scale plan of your space.  Then make a guess or estimate as to what radii you would use in the helix.  Then draw a square box equivalent to the diameter of the helix plus about four inches.  For example, if you think you'd use 30 inch radius, that makes a circle 60 inches in diameter.  Add 4 inches to give you space along the outside of the circle.  In this example you'd get a square 64 inches on a side.  Now superimpose this square on your space to see how much of a chunk of space gets used and see if this makes you comfortable or not.  Note that you will also need to allow additional length along the 22 foot side to swing the track out to curve it into the helix.  Assuming the same radius as in the helix, that will eat another couple feet of your length.

Another minor point is that the nolix needs at least 50 feet to drop 12 inches at a 2% grade (2 inches drop for every 100 inches run equals 600 inches or 50 feet).  I don't know if you were just approximating the required length, but that extra 2 feet could make a difference in your trackplanning.  

I thank the community for its vigorous responses to my questions.  I think I will get thev 30 inch radius wood helix from ashlin and attach a 2% incline set from WS to the end of it.  That will get me a 15 inch drop over a total of 21 to 23 feet the length of one of my side tables.  From there I can either put in 2 staging yards or one staging yard and one 25 to 30 foot sceniced second shelf.. From there I can proceed up the incline and the helix to the main level.  Thanks all for your suggestions and the pictures from Frank in ottawa.  Sincerely Brian

Another design consideration to think about for a double deck layout is what was called the "mushroom" design. The way it's set up, you can't see both decks from the same side. The lower deck is usually viewed from floor level and the other side of the lower level backdrop is the front skirting for the upper level. An elevated walkway is usually provided for the upper deck to be viewed at about the same level as the lower deck. It will give the illusion of being a much larger layout.

Hi Brian,

You have a lot of info from proponents of the helix.  Let me give you an alternate point of view.  Carefully consider the amount of track in and out of the helix.  If the ratio of visible track to helix track is anywhere close to 1:1 or worse yet 1:2 say goodbye to viewing your models half the time, for they'll be lost in helix land.  You'll hear them but won't see them - not very satisfying in my world.

Just another data point for you to consider.

Dwayne A