General Discussion

Here is a link to another article.  Apparently there were two tank cars.  It mentions what they were carrying.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/article_5c29b200-ea08-5c84-922c-e62fb2bb6d28.html

zardoz:

If indeed it was a tornado that caused the derailment, I have to question the wisdom of the engineer in that he just kept on going despite all that was going on around him. Additionally, I wonder why he didn't bail the locomotives brakes and keep pulling away from the wreck. I know he was dragging the firstcar, but still.....

I have stopped my train before due to severe weather; you never know what a storm will serve up: trees across the tracks, washouts (think Rockford), malfuctioning signals and/or crossing protections, etc.

If the alleged tornado had been a few seconds earlier, it could have struck the locomotives instead of the first few cars of the train. And while I would feel fairly safe in a STOPPED locomotive, from this video we can see that a moving train is much more dangerous.

We have no idea what the lead engines view of the weather was, however, I suspect we have all driven, at one time or another, into one of the 'wall of water' type thunderstorms...only knowing that we are entering an area of heavy rain, without being able to see anything but the leading edge of the storm area and no idea of what is behind the wall of water we are entering.  For the entire situation to go from start of rain to derailment in progress in less than a minute (33 seconds).....there was no way to avoid this incident short of having the train stopped in the previous county.

 I didn't get a clear impression the train was trying to stop, only that it definitely ran into something.  A tornado that close might not be all that visible, also it might have run into it just forming. Either way, the engine seemed to remain intact, at least until the rest of the train came running after it.

Here's my observations: First of all, if you look at the trees bending, they are bending away from the train and from watching those tornado shows, when the tornado is close, the wind usually gets sucked into the twister. Another obsvervation is after the cars tipped over, none of the trees where the derailment happened are fallen or even snapped off that is usually a good sign of a tornado. But then again, the debris that you see could be attributed to a tornado that hasn't touched down yet. I'm assuming that even tho a funnel cloud is close to the ground, it could wreck havoc on the surrounding land.

This link has some photos of the January 2008 tornado at Lawrence, IL.  Clearly it was documented as a tornado.  Here is a link that shows several photos: 

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=20080107tor

From the top, photo #8 shows the derailed train alongside of damaged farm buildings.  I don’t see the funnel cloud in the video but they can be a bit elusive to spot sometimes in all the surrounding wind and chaos.  They can jump around and skip up and down. 

But if the funnel directly hit the train, I think it would have hit the train about 4-6 cars back, and this would not have been seen by the camera.  I think it tipped over about ten cars almost simultaneously, but the cars back a ways went over first, and the car next to the engine went over last.  When that last car went over, it opened the view revealing the first cars that had gone over, which by then, were sliding in the ditch.  So the car next to the engine tipping over was the end of the first phase of the derailment.  The beginning of the first phase was not visible, but that is where I would have expected to see the involvement of the funnel if the view had not been blocked by the first car.

Do you think those cars were empties?

According to the linked NWS report, the tornado was at EF2 when it struck the train.  That's winds between 111 and 135 MPH, possibly gusts to 161.  If the train was eastbound, it appears the tornado came in behind the train, so unless the crew happened to see it as they approached the area and recognized it for what it was, they didn't have a clue until their train stared coming apart.

I believe that is the first time I have ever seen a derailment actually happen live as it were. That was amazing.

South of Calgary is a location on the Crowsnest Sub. called Pincher, or as the rest of the world knows it Pincher Creek. It is downwind from a slot between two mountains south of the Crowsnest Pass where the winds blow in a straight line at a very high speed quite often. At one time derailments during those winds were almost common. It is described almost exactly like what happened here, the cars start to lean over, then straighten up and lean over again further, until KA-Boom.

As mentioned on another thread, now that railways work with weather forecasting agencies, things like this can now be avoided. It has been a number of years since I have heard of a wreck down there.

AgentKid

I am surprised that the locomotive would be pulling the first car and it even looks like several stayed coulped for a time. Does the coulper or drawbar twist? They shouldn't. They should break, right? How does it hang on like that?

NP Red:

I am surprised that the locomotive would be pulling the first car and it even looks like several stayed coulped for a time. Does the coulper or drawbar twist? They shouldn't. They should break, right? How does it hang on like that?

I don’t know where the breaking point is, but they can twist without breaking.  There is clearance and “slop” in the coupler engagement as well as the draft gear.  It looks like that car went over 60 degrees or more.  It would be interesting to see exactly how the couplers and draft gear handled that amount of twist. 

As the engine pulled out onto that deck girder bridge, the lead car rode up onto the plate girder alongside of the bridge deck.  You can see the far end of the car rise up a few feet when it rides up onto the girder.  This support would have taken a little stress off of the coupler twist.  Then the tank car wedged into the bottom of the hopper, breaking the coupling, and rolling the hopper upside-down and into the ditch.  When that happens, you can see the damage to the bottom of the hopper caused by the tank car.

I suspect one reason the microphone was put outside the cab was to let crews know they were not being recorded.

I did find a You Tube video of the cleanup but no doubt it was a couple or more days after the wreck because of the tank car cargo.

Rich

Bucyrus:

NP Red:

I am surprised that the locomotive would be pulling the first car and it even looks like several stayed coulped for a time. Does the coulper or drawbar twist? They shouldn't. They should break, right? How does it hang on like that?

I don’t know where the breaking point is, but they can twist without breaking.  There is clearance and “slop” in the coupler engagement as well as the draft gear.  It looks like that car went over 60 degrees or more.  It would be interesting to see exactly how the couplers and draft gear handled that amount of twist. 

 

As the engine pulled out onto that deck girder bridge, the lead car rode up onto the plate girder alongside of the bridge deck.  You can see the far end of the car rise up a few feet when it rides up onto the girder.  This support would have taken a little stress off of the coupler twist.  Then the tank car wedged into the bottom of the hopper, breaking the coupling, and rolling the hopper upside-down and into the ditch.  When that happens, you can see the damage to the bottom of the hopper caused by the tank car.

Back in December 2000, there was a derailment in my hometown of Bucyrus, Ohio (bottom of page at http://chatanuga.org/NSsand.html) where the second and third car that derailed were still coupled when I saw them, even though the third car was on its side.  The couplers were twisted about 90 degrees but still holding.

Kevin

chatanuga:

Back in December 2000, there was a derailment in my hometown of Bucyrus, Ohio (bottom of page at http://chatanuga.org/NSsand.html) where the second and third car that derailed were still coupled when I saw them, even though the third car was on its side.  The couplers were twisted about 90 degrees but still holding.

I've seen a picture of two locomotives coupled together.  One is still on its wheels, but the other is leaning at about a 45 degree angle, apparently supported only by the couplers.  Talk about some stress...

Metal will bend before ultimate failure by breaking.  How much the metal will bend is a function of the metalurgical properties of the particular metal.

This applies to coupler shanks and draft gear was well as any other thing that is made of metal including the car frames and superstructures.