Electronics and DCC

tstage:

Steve,

I believe John was saying that he used a 10' 6-wire cable instead of the 7' cable that comes with the Power Cab; not that he added them together.

Tom

Thanks Tom, that is correct. Also, as I said before using this 10' 6 wire coil cord I have ran 7 locos. I have thought about voltage drop and determined that I would rarely need to run that many locos so its no issue. Anyway I moved on to the SB3 and never use the six wire cord for track power anyway.

spidge:

tstage:

Steve,

I believe John was saying that he used a 10' 6-wire cable instead of the 7' cable that comes with the Power Cab; not that he added them together.

Tom

Thanks Tom, that is correct. Also, as I said before using this 10' 6 wire coil cord I have ran 7 locos. I have thought about voltage drop and determined that I would rarely need to run that many locos so its no issue. Anyway I moved on to the SB3 and never use the six wire cord for track power anyway.

 

 Okay, going back to the site I linked to before, and plugging in "only" 20 feet of 26 AWG at 12VDC and .75 amps (two sound locos), you still get a 10.49% voltage drop, or about 1.25 to 1.5 volts depending on the specific track voltage.

  Put another way, with a .75 amp load, that 10-foot cable itself would need dissipate roughly a full watt of heat just from the voltage drop.  You might not think it's an issue, but it's certainly not a situation I'd knowingly introduce on my layout.

Steve

Stevert:

spidge:

tstage:

Steve,

I believe John was saying that he used a 10' 6-wire cable instead of the 7' cable that comes with the Power Cab; not that he added them together.

Tom

Thanks Tom, that is correct. Also, as I said before using this 10' 6 wire coil cord I have ran 7 locos. I have thought about voltage drop and determined that I would rarely need to run that many locos so its no issue. Anyway I moved on to the SB3 and never use the six wire cord for track power anyway.

 

 Okay, going back to the site I linked to before, and plugging in "only" 20 feet of 26 AWG at 12VDC and .75 amps (two sound locos), you still get a 10.49% voltage drop, or about 1.25 to 1.5 volts depending on the specific track voltage.

  Put another way, with a .75 amp load, that 10-foot cable itself would need dissipate roughly a full watt of heat just from the voltage drop.  You might not think it's an issue, but it's certainly not a situation I'd knowingly introduce on my layout.

Steve

 I see John mentioned that he wasn't using the Power Cab as the command station, he is using an SB3.

spidge:

If you are running N-scale then 1.7 amps is actually enough to run many trains. I have had 7 locos running with my Powercab alone and after about an hour it showed no issues.

I've always felt that the Power Cab is a good choice If you will never need more than 1.7 amps, and if you will never need more than two throttles, or one throttle and a computer interface, and if you like the feel and operation of their throttles.

If any of these ifs don't work for you then the Zephyr may be the better choice, unless of course one doesn't like the Digitrax throttles either.  But the Zephyr does have the better upgrade path and I'm guessing that it would be the next choice for most.

The throttle is the interface between user and system and ones ultimate enjoyment of their system is going to weigh heavily on how the throttle feels and what it can or can't do.

It's too bad potential buyers don't have the chance to try out each throttle but I doubt if many hobby shops offer this opportunity.  Even the great Caboose Hobbies only has a display with NCE, Digitrax and Lenz throttles hooked up to a track and then it's only their primary throttles and no track loop or turnouts to really try everything, and I've never seen them display any of the auxilliary throttles, and have no MRC throttles.

So Taylor, ask as many questions as you can here, at hobby shops, train shows and clubs to get as much feedback as you can about systems and their throttles, and especially throttles as how they feel in your hand and how they do things can make a big difference.  The more you know the better your chance of making a good choice.

Judging on the good job the NCE engineers did on the overall design of the power cab, I'd bet that they figured the drop in. Before upgrading I ran mine loaded up and had no issues. I do think that the flat cable provided with the cab just might be heavier than 26 gauge though. Cat 5 cable for instance is 24 gauge.

I have a Zephyr on my small layout at home. It has so far worked for everything I want to do, and it lets me run a mix of decoder equipped and non decoder equipped locomotives. Though the Zephyr is a bit limited past the scope of smallish layouts, it is a great starting point and will become a solid core to a larger DCC system. Just my opinion.

 

Cahrn 

Hamltnblue:

...I do think that the flat cable provided with the cab just might be heavier than 26 gauge though...

I do think that the flat cable that comes with the Power Cab is of a heavier gauge than 26. Something to remember for anyone considering replacing or extended this cord is that the current actually passes through this cable not two, but four times: power supply to cab(1), cab to track bus(2), track bus back to cab(3), and cab back to power supply(4). The calculator that Steve linked to did account for the roundtrip.

I am a big fan of Digitrax's system design and feel that if you desire to get into any signalling, detection, and/or automated or PC controlled operations and want it all integrated, Digitrax is the way to go. That being said, I do feel that NCE's systems are good systems and better suited for many people.

jwils1:

I've always felt that the Power Cab is a good choice If you will never need more than 1.7 amps, and if you will never need more than two throttles, or one throttle and a computer interface, and if you like the feel and operation of their throttles.

While I don't exactly agree with this, one thing I do not like about the Power Cab is it's upgrade path. Of course the Power Cab can be used as a Pro Cab on a Power Pro system, and I like that feature. You can also upgrade it with the Smart Booster, but if you think you will ever want more than the 4 cab limit of the Smart Boooster, then you are better off going straight to the Power Pro system because if you go to the Smart Booster and then Power Pro, the Smart Booster will no longer be useable in the system - not even as just a booster. It is also important to remember that the PC interface and any other cab bus accessories, such as the micro panel, use cab addresses and cut into the number of cabs you can use. The Zephyr is advertised as having a 10 cab limit out of the box(the limit isn't really the number of cabs you can have, but the number of trains you can control at a time, and from my experience it is actually 12, not 10), and PC interfaces and input modules similar to the mini panel do not use cab addresses so they do not cut into that limit.

CSX Robert:

jwils1:

I've always felt that the Power Cab is a good choice If you will never need more than 1.7 amps, and if you will never need more than two throttles, or one throttle and a computer interface, and if you like the feel and operation of their throttles.

While I don't exactly agree with this, one thing I do not like about the Power Cab is it's upgrade path. Of course the Power Cab can be used as a Pro Cab on a Power Pro system, and I like that feature. You can also upgrade it with the Smart Booster, but if you think you will ever want more than the 4 cab limit of the Smart Boooster, then you are better off going straight to the Power Pro system because if you go to the Smart Booster and then Power Pro, the Smart Booster will no longer be useable in the system - not even as just a booster. It is also important to remember that the PC interface and any other cab bus accessories, such as the micro panel, use cab addresses and cut into the number of cabs you can use.

 

I'm not so sure that the statement regarding using the PC interface with the Super Booster or Power Cab cuts the number of cabs by one is correct.  There are reserved cab addresses for specific uses, and I believe the 2 or 4 cab limit is still valid after adding the PC interface.  But I'm willing to be proven wrong by an actual user.

Be that as it may, knowing the desired end state - particularly number of throttles - is as important in DCC planning as it is in DC.  Otherwise, one ends up with dead end upgrade paths and wasted money.  Not that all throttles have to be bought immediately - but provision does have to be made for the eventual total number.  Even if some of the throttles will come from friends bringing their own, the total has to be planned for.

If remaining at a single or 2 operator level (2 throttles), to me the preferred form factor should be one of the drivers in the choice between NCE and Digitraxx and MRC.  If you want all walk-around throttles, MRC and NCE are cheaper starting points.  If you prefer a central panel operation, then the Zephyr makes more sense.

One more point - if operating more than 2 walk-around tethered throttles simultaneously, you are going to run into tangled tethers on most layouts (DC or DCC).  Wireless is the obvious solution to the problem, but brings another level of costs and upgrade planning.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

Fred, excellent summary.

I am a Digitrax Z user, but really like NCE products as well.  When I purchased my Z there was not a choice.  The PowerCab was not released yet and MRC had not yet moved onto their current line of DCC systems.  Had I had a choice at the time, the Power Cab would have received very strong consideration as I like the form factor of the throttle.

Having said that, looking at where I am now, I would have hit the extent of the upgrade path on the PowerCab.  The throttle limit is what would have nailed me.  From day 1, there have been 3 of us using the layout simultaneously.  We used the Z throttle and the 2 jump throttles.  We quickly added a DT400 dual throttle bringing us up to an effective 5 throttles. Have since added a UT4 and a PC with virtual throttles.  It is not unusual for me and the 2 boys to have 5 throttles in use all the time.  We have also added a DB150 booster and are about to add at new DT402D and UR92 duplex wireless (in transit as we speak).  All of which has and will be added with my trusty Z as the command station at the center of it all.  Nothing redundant.  This would not have been possible with the PowerCab, other than going right to a ProCab and avoiding the Smart Booster.

So I would concur.  If you don't have any real plans to upgrade the system in the future, and the Power Cab meets your needs, it is a great system.  If you think you might follow a path like me then you can't go wrong with the Zephyr.

simon1966:

So I would concur.  If you don't have any real plans to upgrade the system in the future, and the Power Cab meets your needs, it is a great system.  If you think you might follow a path like me then you can't go wrong with the Zephyr.

I think this kind of sums it up or close to it for me. I kept my layout size restricted on purpose and can only keep 4 people busy for a couple hours. Now when I was looking to get started the main issue for me was the human interface and the Powercab looked more user friendly as I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. Shoot the SB3 nor the interface were out yet, but were in planning. My intention with this system is use on this layout and maybe take the throttle to someone elses from time to time. Now when I build my dream empire I will revisit all this and decide from there.

I do like the Digitrax loconet system where you can tie in signaling and all that goes with it. There are many pros and cons for each system and two big atvantages I think about is the recall stack of 10 and the jump cabs utilizing DC cabs in the Zephyr.

To each his own and choose what best fits you now and in the next couple years. I would not put to much wieght on features that you may not utilize for 10 years down the road. The idea behind these starter system is just that, get started. If you can afford signalling and such you would skip the starter systems anyway.

I looked at the flat cable that came with my power cab.  It has 24awg written on it.  Answers that.

I did some checks on my power cab.

With 10 sound decoders sitting on the track they draw .47 amps

With 6 sitting they draw .23 amps.

With 6 on the track, with 4 of them pulling, and sound on they draw about .97 amps. One of my grades is 3.3%

My locos are less than 2 years old so they are of newer design. I like the P. Cab because I find it simple to understand and I can read the CVs easly.
I did start out with A Digatrax and changed, No offense to anyone just my  .

I don't have enough track to have all 10 locos running at once so I run 4 or 5 off on a siding and cut the power to them.

Have fun.

Lee

simon1966:

  Had I had a choice at the time, the Power Cab would have received very strong consideration as I like the form factor of the throttle.

This is not the first time I've heard this and I had the same thoughts at one time.  I thought a Power Cab/Smart Booster combo would serve my needs for power and number of throttles for a long time, with only an upgrade to radio needed in the future.  But the form factor was the killer for me.  I was so disappointed once I started using it.  NCE is such a fine company, with outstanding product quality, great radio performance, and absolutely wonderful customer service.  It was hard for me to give up on NCE but I decided to take a chance on the Zephyr.

I've always admired the Ditgrax philosophy and design, and wasn't disappointed.  I started with a Zephyr and DT400, which I think is a perfect combo for many users.  I guess I got lucky because the DT400 is, in many respects, just perfect for me.  I later added radio, which performed flawlessly, and now I too expect to receive my DT402D/UR92 tomorrow.  It took me a while, and had to spend a little money, but I've found the very best system for me, and the form factor was the clincher.

In comparing Digitrax, NCE and MRC there is another consideration that might be important to some.  If you want to throw turnouts with your DCC system I've found that Digitrax can do this with fewer button presses and in a smoother, more efficient manner.  This was just another little bonus I got with my Digtrax choice.

fwright:

I'm not so sure that the statement regarding using the PC interface with the Super Booster or Power Cab cuts the number of cabs by one is correct.  There are reserved cab addresses for specific uses, and I believe the 2 or 4 cab limit is still valid after adding the PC interface.  But I'm willing to be proven wrong by an actual user.

There are no reserved addresses for the PC interface. When configured for use with the Power Cab, the USB interface is forced to cab bus address 3, which is the only available address for auxillary cabs on a Power Cab system. When configured for use with a Smart Booster, the available addresses are 2-5, the same addresses availble for the cabs. The USB interface, Mini Panel, and Auxiliary Input Unit all reduce the number of cabs you can have on an NCE system.