General Discussion

Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?

Here in my country we don't have special rr police at all, security is maintained by normal federal police, like anywhere else. Being a railfan, I am not aware that we are forbidden to make photos from anywere inside or outside a ry station. Of course, you are not allowed to walk on tracks, or immediately nearby, however there is no requirement of staying off 50 feet. Actually there are a lot of public walkways immediately alongside of tracks, perhaps only 15 to 20 ft away. Tracks are sometimes fenced off but not everywhere and there are sometimes inofficial footpath crossings over the track(s). Usually there is a sign "do not cross tracks" in some areas where it is considered very dangerous if people would do that, but I have never seen this being actually inforced. And I sure can't say that we have so many accidents, I think that people who do trespass usually know exactly where to look for and heed.

I assume in Austria trespassing idiots who get hurt can't turn around and sue for 7 figures. From what I understand about Europe, the law recognizes that people are adults.

Unlike this country.

Kiwigerd:

Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?

Railroads really have very few police in comparison to the territory that each railroad covers.  One of the primary functions of RR police is to provided security to the cargo's that railroads carry and the schemes necessary to protect these cargo's 'on private property' are not a routine concern of local authorities, just the same as apprehending shop lifters in a Wal-Mart is not the concern of local authorities.  Once the law breakers have been identified and apprehended then the local legal system can take over for prosecution and trial.

Local police authorities have their hands full doing the police function in their own civilian areas, without taking on the function on the railroads private property.

In truth, there are far fewer railroad police today than there were 20/30 years ago.

Kiwigerd:

Can somebody please tell me why American railroads need so many police?

I've never encountered a "bull" (to use the old slang term) that I knew of.  Doesn't mean I haven't, but...  I'd suspect that unless you hang around RR facilities a lot, or happen to be in an area where they've had some problems, most people won't encounter them very often.

As was mentioned, they're really more of a loss prevention agent - protecting the assets of the railroad and the goods it carries.

I think the perception of how many RR Police there are is skewed by the quickness of those who have had an encounter (good or bad) to answer up when such a topic is raised on the forum.  Keep in mind, too, that those of us who hang around the tracks are certainly more likely have an encounter than those who don't.

There are also the transit police - whose true function is ensuring that everybody who rides, pays.  Other police actions are secondary.

Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?

To answer you question,To an outsider reading this forum,it may seem like there are a lot of RR Police but in actuality there are not ! RR Police are there to protect RR property and freight shipments..They work the yards and slow xings where tresspassers and transits and THEIVES are know to lurk and highjack freight shipments..If you hang around these places your going to be asked what your doing there,  Count on it ! Keep in mind that photographing trains is not what the POLICE are going to believe,unless you are a died in the wool foamer,in possesion of a scanner,camera and wearing your favorite  RRT-shirt and ball cap with all your RR pins on it..,  In the aforementioned situation the RR police have "Probable Cause to stop and detain you for field interviews and if they dont believe you,you will either get arrested or get a ticket or both ! I wish you guys that harp on this would look at it from our point of view ! We're just doing our job ! If Ive said it once Ive said it a 100 times,STAY OUT OF YARDS ! get out in the country to take your photos and you wont be bothered..  I'll get off my  now...

BaltACD:

In most jurisdictions Railroad Police have the full range of police powers that any other police officer has.  In today's world most Railroad Police have had prior careers with governmental police departments and are well versed in the duties and exercise of police power

This is a relic carried over from those heady days of the 19th Century when railroad was synonymous with power and they demanded and got from the legislatures of the states extraterritorial authority. This authority is badly outdated and in drastic need of repeal.

In Arizona Public Utility Companies--that's Salt River Project and Arizona Public Service--have been granted the same authority and if you think that governmental law enforcement officers are abusive tangle with one of these turkeys sometime; with enough gumption you can fight city hall--it is impossible to fight these guys because the lines of authority are so convoluted that it even comes as a surprise to the legislators that SRP and APS security personnel have law enforcement authority. Unlike government agency police officers who are subject to constitutional restrains these what I call "private property cops" are subject to none of these restraints and there have been cases here in Arizona where they have actually broken down the doors on private property supposedly searching for stolen property and they don't need a search warrant to do it.

 

Kiwigerd:

Can somebody please tell me why american railroads need so many police?

Here in my country we don't have special rr police at all, security is maintained by normal federal police, like anywhere else. Being a railfan, I am not aware that we are forbidden to make photos from anywere inside or outside a ry station. Of course, you are not allowed to walk on tracks, or immediately nearby, however there is no requirement of staying off 50 feet. Actually there are a lot of public walkways immediately alongside of tracks, perhaps only 15 to 20 ft away. Tracks are sometimes fenced off but not everywhere and there are sometimes inofficial footpath crossings over the track(s). Usually there is a sign "do not cross tracks" in some areas where it is considered very dangerous if people would do that, but I have never seen this being actually inforced. And I sure can't say that we have so many accidents, I think that people who do trespass usually know exactly where to look for and heed.

It might be interesting to see how many railroad police officers there are PER TRACK MILE in the various countries...I will bet you in the U.S. it is very low compared with European nations.

In reading your description of the encounter w/ the rr bull, it most likely was a 'rr patrolman' and not a special agent. Agents are management positions cream-of-the-crop so to speak. Patrolmen are just that--union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe types who will do anything to make a name for themselves. A good friend of mine in MO lives directly across from the UP/Amtrk KC-STL line. He photographs & tapes trains quite often from his own front yard. He is just waiting at the bit when some member of the law takes exception to this. At some point it will happen somewhere, someday to someone  and that will be so interesting once that hits the media.

SFbrkmn:

In reading your description of the encounter w/ the rr bull, it most likely was a 'rr patrolman' and not a special agent. Agents are management positions cream-of-the-crop so to speak. Patrolmen are just that--union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe's  Barney Fife types who will do anything to make a name for themselves. A good friend of mine in MO lives directly across from the UP/Amtrk KC-STL line. He photographs & tapes trains quite often from his own front yard. He is just waiting at the bit when some member of the law takes exception to this. At some point it will happen somewhere, someday to someone  and that will be so interesting once that hits the media.

Tell me, sir, how are they wannabes when they are actual law enforcement officers? Why would someone take exception to him filming form his property? Sounds like your good friend has a little attitude problem and is looking for a fight. The RR police we have here have tons of territory to cover and one hell of a dangerous job. Looking for thieves in the middle of a railroad yard in the dead of night has to be a little unnerving. Not like help is 3 minutes away.

It seems to me that the people who have a problem with railroad police doing their jobs are the ones who are caught where they don't belong. Some railfans feel that railroads "owe them" because they are railfans and above all others. These police are doing their jobs. If they ask you to move, you move. I was on a bus trip to a RR facility. We were told by the RR police you may go up to the open gate, not go through it. One of these railfans on the trip marched right through the gate oblivious to everything. The result? Everyone was ordered back on the bus and the bus was escorted off the property. Come on people. You are railfans. you like trains. That doesn't mean that railroads have to like you. I think they tolerate us quite nicely. Don't blow it for everyone else.

 

SFbrkmn:

In reading your description of the encounter w/ the rr bull, it most likely was a 'rr patrolman' and not a special agent. Agents are management positions cream-of-the-crop so to speak. Patrolmen are just that--union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe's  Barney Fife types who will do anything to make a name for themselves. A good friend of mine in MO lives directly across from the UP/Amtrk KC-STL line. He photographs & tapes trains quite often from his own front yard. He is just waiting at the bit when some member of the law takes exception to this. At some point it will happen somewhere, someday to someone  and that will be so interesting once that hits the media.

 

You do a complete diservice to the men and women who serve to protect us.  I resent ANYONE who has the gall to insult ANY law enforcement official as a "Barney Fife type".

 

SFbrkmn:

In reading your description of the encounter w/ the rr bull, it most likely was a 'rr patrolman' and not a special agent. Agents are management positions cream-of-the-crop so to speak. Patrolmen are just that--union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe's  Barney Fife types who will do anything to make a name for themselves. A good friend of mine in MO lives directly across from the UP/Amtrk KC-STL line. He photographs & tapes trains quite often from his own front yard. He is just waiting at the bit when some member of the law takes exception to this. At some point it will happen somewhere, someday to someone  and that will be so interesting once that hits the media.

Your friend is a raging paranoid, I'm afraid. And I'll bet you're one of those goofs who inspired the name "foamer".

Regarding your stupid statement "Patrolmen are just that--union positions which pay at a much lower rate and are made up of many wannabe's, Barney Fife, etc." you attempt to denegrate RR officers because of their income level. I'll bet that's because they make more than you, or you applied for the job and were rejected because you weren't smart enough.

For years, Florida State Troopers were very poorly paid, starting about $23,000. Our Illinois troops start at about twice that, and I can tell you both states get the same strong effort from those folks. You seem to have some sort of anger problem with authority figures, which at some point it will manifest itself somewhere, someday to you and that will be so interesting once that hits the media, too.

Murray:

You do a complete diservice to the men and women who serve to protect us.  I resent ANYONE who has the gall to insult ANY law enforcement official as a "Barney Fife type".

However, it might be a good idea to remember that they are not all heroes, and, like in any profession, it is the selfish, disreputable, non-dedicated persons that ruin the reputation of the honest, diligent, hard-working ones. Whether it be police, lawyers, train engineers, etc., there are always a few that ruin it for the rest. As always, it is best to judge each person individually, rather than being bigoted and lumping any particular group of people into some pre-defined set of attributes.

Some cops are Barney-Fife types. But many of them are true heroes.

The problem is that too many people tend to stereotype police officials in this light when they are only trying to do their job.  I find it very hard to believe that police officials go out of their way to hassle individuals, many of whom are in places where they should not be.

Murray:

The problem is that too many people tend to stereotype police officials in this light when they are only trying to do their job.

Quite correct.

Murray:

I find it very hard to believe that police officials go out of their way to hassle individuals

The hard working, honest, dedicated police will not; the Barney Fife's will.