Toy train operating and collecting

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am not too familar with running trains other than conventionally. 

I am thinking of using a postwar ZW to power my layout, but I have read that if I am using a postwar ZW and using modern engines (4-4-2 from a Pennsy Flyer set and a LV GP38) the engines may jumpstart instead of starting off slow. The CW-80 from my PA flyer set I have does not give that problem.

Anyway if I am using a postwar ZW to power my layout and I use TMCC will that be able to help this problem of jumpstarting?

 Also, I have read that you can buy a "TMCC powermaster. #6-24130" that will run the non-TMCC engines. Does Legacy have something like that too or does the engine need to be Legacy equipped?

Thanks!

Lehigh Valley Railroader:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I am not too familar with running trains other than conventionally. 

I am thinking of using a postwar ZW to power my layout, but I have read that if I am using a postwar ZW and using modern engines (4-4-2 from a Pennsy Flyer set and a LV GP38) the engines may jumpstart instead of starting off slow. The CW-80 from my PA flyer set I have does not give that problem.

Anyway if I am using a postwar ZW to power my layout and I use TMCC will that be able to help this problem of jumpstarting?

 Also, I have read that you can buy a "TMCC powermaster. #6-24130" that will run the non-TMCC engines. Does Legacy have something like that too or does the engine need to be Legacy equipped?

Thanks!

first no dumb questions here.

second I don't know all the answers but yes there is an item that can be bought that works with legacey its 6-14189 TPC 300 or you can go with TPC 400 which just takes up to 400 watts instead of 300 watts. this can also be used with TMCC but the one you said can't be used with Legacey from what I have been told. ( the Powermaster 6-24130) also a tip here from what I have found Charles Ro has about the best prices for the above items I'm sure there are others that match his but I haven't really seen it but haven't checked that hard either. www.charlesro.com

now they do recommend if your using a zw or another transformer to get some ( i know I'm going to use wrong word here and hopefuly some of the others like Bob Nelson kicks in with correct item) relay to advoid frying some of the eletrical items should you have a short on the tracks

LVRR:

You can use the Post War ZW, but I would suggest putting in some kind of quick blow fuse if you are running TMCC/Legacy engines as a voltage spike could kill the boards.  Lionelsoni (Bob) knows what you’ll need.  Hopefully, he’ll chime in on that.

As far as running conventional with TMCC/Legacy, if you are running TMCC there is a Powermaster that you will need to bridge the signals over to TMCC and the CAB-1 will act just like a remote transformer.  The big red L dial will control voltage and the horn/whistle/direction buttons will act the same.  Lionel recommends a TPC300 or TPC400, and I would suggest getting one.  I used direct voltage from my CW80 and there really is no “fine tuning” of the voltage with conventional.

As far as Legacy Is concerned, I have just upgraded to Legacy and Lionel has just released the PowerMaster Bridge for Legacy to run conventional and seems to be a simple cable attaching deal.  I have yet to sit down and read the install instructions,  but the Bridge converts the signals so that Legacy can pick them up.  I just received the pre-order from Trainz, so I’m still not really up to speed on the install.

Hope that helps a little!

 Just to add to what has been posted so far.

 It is recommended you add two devices to protect your trains. Both are easily available and are inexpensive.  The two devices are 1) quick blow fuses (some folks use auto resetting circuit breakers), and 2) TVS. The former protects against high amperage such as from derails. The TVS protects against voltage spikes. Type TVS in the search window to the right and you'll find all kinds of previous posts with good info.

 If Lionelsoni posts, he can give you much more accurate info.

Thanks for the replys so far!

 I was planning on either buying a refurb ZW from Trainz or I may get one from a friend. Either way the quick blow fuse and the TVS sound like really good investments.

Does the New ZW have the ablility to start the engines slowly, if so then I would not need the " 6-14189 TPC 300 or TPC 400" is that correct?

If that is the case and I end up buying a postwar ZW for $230 to $250 and this TPC 300 or 400 for $160 to $180 would I be better off just buying the new ZW?

If I get the postwar CHEAP then that would be more inexpensive option.

Any thoughts? or Opinions?

charles ro has the TPC-300 for $129.95 and the TPC - 400 $174.95 TPC list in lionel for like $229.99 and the TPC 300 $169.99

Now weather a new ZW can give you the slow smoth take off your looking for I would say no but not sure as don't have one. from what i understand the best thing for that is legacey with either tpc- 300 or tpc-400. I know its more money everytime we turn around thats why I'm slowly changing things befor I build my layout so when I'm ready to build I will have it the way I want it as far as controlls and engines.

Lehigh Valley Railroader:

Does the New ZW have the ablility to start the engines slowly, if so then I would not need the " 6-14189 TPC 300 or TPC 400" is that correct?

If that is the case and I end up buying a postwar ZW for $230 to $250 and this TPC 300 or 400 for $160 to $180 would I be better off just buying the new ZW?

The TPC takes the power from the ZW, and then applies it to the track as you turn the red dial on the TMCC/Legacy remote. As I am not familiar controlling the locomotives you are talking about using a TPC, I can't tell you if you would have slower start up's using a TPC w/ an old ZW over a new ZW.

Be advised, the new ZW transformers are not transformers in themselves, they are just a controller for powering the trains. The actual power comes from TPC's.

Put a TVS in parallel with the rails for each block.  That will stop voltage that might harm the train electronics.  Forget about fuses and "fast" circuit breakers.  Size the circuit breakers to protect the wiring.  Use the thermal type of auto-resetting circuit breaker that is installed in most transformers.  If your transformer has multiple outputs, put a circuit breaker in series with each one.  Otherwise just use the one that's built into the transformer.  Get automotive-type breakers at any auto-parts store. 

The new ZW is in fact a controller, its power comes from the 1 to 4 Power Houses (or PoHos) attached to it.  The combination of the new ZW controller and the attached PoHos give it the same logical function as the older ZW – four independently controlled channels to power trains and accessories.  The TPCs have NO power generation capabilities intrinsic to the TPC itself.  You must connect a power source (new ZW, old ZW or PoHo) to the inputs.  They like 18 volts are so; the TPC induces a slight voltage drop, so the max output is always slightly less than the input. 

The output of the TPC operates in either command (TMCC or Legacy) or non-command mode.  In command mode, the output is steady to the track, the voltage can be set by the CAB 1 or 2.  Once set, every time the TPC is turned on, it applies that voltage to the track.  In the convention mode, the CAB’s velocity controller controls the voltage to the rails.  With one TPC and one PoHo you can run in conventional and none conventional mode with a TMCC or Legacy system.

Reply on the thread or email me directly if you have any questions – figuring out exactly what each piece does, how it fits in with everything else and how to get it hooked up can be confusing until you’ve done it once or twice.

Regards,

lionelsoni:

Put a TVS in parallel with the rails for each block.  That will stop voltage that might harm the train electronics.  Forget about fuses and "fast" circuit breakers.  Size the circuit breakers to protect the wiring.  Use the thermal type of auto-resetting circuit breaker that is installed in most transformers.  If your transformer has multiple outputs, put a circuit breaker in series with each one.  Otherwise just use the one that's built into the transformer.  Get automotive-type breakers at any auto-parts store. 

Bob is right.  I still use the the fast acting breakers and they will trip.  3 Post War ZW's running two mainlines and sidings.  Never had a problem.  I have, upon Bob's advice, replaced all the transformer breakers with the automotive type reseting breakers.  After I added TVS's, upon Bob's advice, I have felt a lot safer.  I love PW ZW's.  They are dependable and easy to repair if needed.  Good luck.

Luther,

I found your reply very interesting, as I too have sort of the same predicament.  Quick background:

I use a TMC Z4000 strictly for power to my trains,a TPC 400 and Legacy.  As I have only one Legacy controlled engine I had hoped to use the TPC 400 to run my conventiola trains..  I am using your wiring suggestions using a heavy duty DPDT switch.  My question is that I have two isolated  loops, how do I wire both of these loops into the system.  My ideal situation would be to be able to mix the two loops. On one I would run the conventional engines and the other use the CAB 2 for the legacy or TMC for conventional.  I know that I can use the CAB2 to control one engine at a time unless they are all command controled  I hope I've made myself clear.  It does sound  a little confusing.Thanks for any sugestions.

Ed,

If you are powering both loops from a single TPC, you will not be able to have the TPC operate in conventional and command at the same time.  If you wanted to keep conventionals on one loop and command engines on the other and not remove them to switch between modes, you could use another DPDT switch to control the output from the first DPDT switch to either loop.  This would not give concurrent operation.

I am not as familiar with the Z4000 (I believe this is the MTH Z4000?). I think that you could drive the conventional loop directly from one of the throttles on the Z4000 with the other throttle feeding the TPC 400 set up in command mode connected the command loop.  Ensure you have the loops isolated in this configuration.  It is unsafe to tie to outputs of the two throttles together.  This would allow you to run both loops at the same time, controlling one with the CAB 2 and the other with the Z4000 throttle.

- Luther