Layouts and layout building

mcfunkeymonkey:

Just curious what people thought of it operationally.  Is this a fun & realistic switching layout or one that unrealistically creates work for itself. 

Well, I'm a big John Armstrong fan, but this was not one of his stronger efforts, IMHO. The turntable as a part of the runaround is an unnecessary gimmick, although it did probably selll some Atlas turntables when he did a similar plan originally for one of Atlas' trackplan books in 1958, which may be why the TT is included.

In 12 feet, there are many better choices, some have been shown in the thread, such as the modification of Jonathan Jones' layout or an adpatation of the trusty Switchman's Nightmare.

There are some good ideas, such as the interchange yard at one end to act as visible staging. But I think it unnecessarily creates work when a more realistic, less convoluted configuration with more overlap of elements (and a viable run-around) could be a lot more interesting and less tedious to operate in the long term. Then again, some prefer clutter to realism, of course.

Byron
Model RR Blog 
Layout Design Gallery

 Designing a small layout like the "scenic" shelf switchers we are discussing here is, IMHO, as challenging as designing a big one. True, you don´t have to consider a "big" picture, but you need to take care of a lot motre detail. There is not much room for mistakes. In a small layout, you have no area to compensate for a mistake. As the layout is also easily overlooked, you have to pay also a lot of attention to detail. Personally, I favor building small layouts for that very reason.

cuyama:

But I think it unnecessarily creates work when a more realistic, less convoluted configuration with more overlap of elements (and a viable run-around) could be a lot more interesting and less tedious to operate in the long term

 I am a fan of Byron's overlap technique (which I first noticed in his 1x6 foot N scale Alameda Belt Line plan in Model Railroad Planning in 2005) - if you look at the four layout plans below, they all have a longish (for a small shelf layout) runaround at the core, where the track that is part of the runaround also serve other purposes at the same time - mainline, siding, yard switching lead, industry switching lead.

Smile,
Stein

 Lance Mindheim will be publishing a new book on small switching layouts - check his web page for the announcement.

 http://www.lancemindheim.com/news_and_notes.htm

If it is within my financial reach, I will order it to get some more inspiration.

 Ok, the bug has bitten! I am still ins earch of the ultimate plan for a small shelf layout. The following is an adaption of Bob Smaus´ Port of L.A. RR, which MR covered somewhere in the 1990´s.

 Lance Mindheim says, that the greater the knowledge on RR operation, the less track you need - am I on the "right track" now?

Sir Madog:

 Ok, the bug has bitten! I am still ins earch of the ultimate plan for a small shelf layout. The following is an adaption of Bob Smaus´ Port of L.A. RR, which MR covered somewhere in the 1990´s.

 

http://mrsvc.blogspot.com/2008/09/smaus-port-of-la-inspirational-layout-1.html

Smile,
Stein

 Stein,

... that´s where I "borrowed" the idea from. 

I now have a number of plans - could fill a scrapbook - but  still I don´t have that wow-feeling. What am I doing wrong? Too much thinking and planning?

Sir Madog:

I now have a number of plans - could fill a scrapbook - but  still I don´t have that wow-feeling. What am I doing wrong? Too much thinking and planning?

If you are expecting one of these small switching plans to "wow" you as much as a room-sized layout, you may continue to be disappointed. This thread has included some great plans, some good ones, and some poor ones. But it's not likely that any track plan in 2X8 or 2X10 feet will have as much appeal as a well-designed layout for a 10X10 or 10X12 room.

One of the great things about small layouts is you can build and finish them relatively quickly, enjoy them for a while, then revise or rebuild them if they become too familiar. I'd suggest that you might be happier if you could embrace the positives of the smaller layout without dwelling on the limitations or expecting to find a "perfect' small plan.

Byron
Model RR Blog 
Layout Design Gallery

Sir Madog:

 I now have a number of plans - could fill a scrapbook - but  still I don´t have that wow-feeling. What am I doing wrong? Too much thinking and planning?

 I guess you will just have to reevaluate your goals and try to formulate to yourself why you want a layout and what you want from a layout.

 What makes you go "wow" ? What era(s), locations(s), type of railroading inspire you ? Have you looked at prototype pictures from earlier times in various places ?

 Smile,
 Stein

 I guess my "Wow"-effect comes from the level of detail and a highlky realistic look of small and individual scenes on my layout. I am not the type of model railroader who wants to build that basement filling layout with spectacular mountain scenery, sweeping curves, 50+ car trains etc., that will never come close to being finished in some sense of the word.  I have always built small and very individual layouts with a focus on detail.

What do I expect from my layout?  I´d like to use the term "operational diorama" in an urban setting (preferably Milwaukee Road area), allowing for a realistic operation that does not get boring after 5 minutes, but could keep 2 people "busy" for 30 - 45 minutes in a session.

Am I a helpless case ?

Sir Madog:

What do I expect from my layout?  I´d like to use the term "operational diorama" in an urban setting (preferably Milwaukee Road area), allowing for a realistic operation that does not get boring after 5 minutes, but could keep 2 people "busy" for 30 - 45 minutes in a session.

Am I a helpless case ?

 You are probably an incurable model train nut, like the rest of us :-)

 Some prototype photos of Milwaukee Road trackage in Minneapolis, for possible inspiration:

View of downtown Mpls from the Milwaukee Depot

Corner of the Milwaukee Railroad Yard in Minneapolis

Switcher by North Start Woolen Mills in Minneapolis

Grain elevators along Hiawatha Avenue, Mpls

Smile,
Stein

 Yes, Sir, that´s what I am! And it all started, when Santa (my parents) brought me a Marklin starter set in 1963, together with a Faller kit for a little train stop. I still have that. In the 1970´s MR had a poem about a guy like me, does any one remember it? Must have been in 1971 or ´72.

Came from the doctor´s this morning - must have had a minor stroke a short while ago. Makes me worry...

Hi Ulrich,

I hope all will be well (Ich werde die Daumen drücken für Dich).

If you are interested in the Milwaukee Road, I recommend you go to the website of the Milwaukee Road Historical Society and buy their books about the Beer line (of MR fame) in Milwaukee and the book about Chicago. I have both and recommend them heartily. The Chicago book is very fascinating with lots of pictures from the air taken by the company photographer. As far as I am aware the society's quarterly publication regularly has an article with these aerial views.

See here for the books:

http://www.mrha.com/catlist.cfm?passid=BK

The one about the beer line has only 30 copies left....

Marc

 Hi Marc,

not so long ago, they had 31 copies left.... Took them only 5 days to deliver it to me.

I guess it was MR´s feature on the Beer Line that attracted me to the Milwaukee Road, plus the fact that a friend of mine gave me an Athearn Genesis MP15AC  in Milwaukee Road livery. And I like Beer...

There's a lot of information in this thread so I don't know if any one has mentioned specifically the following site, http://carendt.com/  .  I know that some specific trackplans have been referenced but go the the main site.  It's fun to browse throught the many trackplans available and the monthly newsletter going back several years that features actual layouts that modelers have built.  The layouts are mostly all micro and macro layouts but if you have a little more room the layouts could be expanded.

Also, Tony Koester, a contributer to Model Railroad Magazine, has championed the idea of taking a small portion of a prototype railroad and building a small layout or module based on that.  Compression is almost always necessary but the idea is that one day it could be a portion of a larger layout.  I think this idea is called something like Individual design elements.  Maybe there's a railroad near you, or one you remember from you past, that has an interesting track plan or industry you could model.  Someone have rightly noted that it's better to build a model of a prototype than a model of someone else's model. 

I hope everything works out for you.

 Ray