Layouts and layout building

Hmm....well I'm pretty convinced there are more benefits to screwing them from the bottom than I thought. Still not looking forward to that part of it though. Maybe I'll try to do as much pre-drilling as I can.

Thanks for your help.

I like using the L-girder or T-girder configuration for my bench work.  It is the flexibility of the system that is appealing.  You can make adjustments pretty easily without a big to-do about it.  On the layout that I'm building with my Dad, we used plywood ripped down to make our T-girders.  With the ply, they turn out remarkably strong.  Here is a link to another forum that I show some pix of the girders we made, and the beginnings of the bench work.

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4961&page=2

 I hope this helps you in your building process.

Thanks YourOwnGod,

I've seen that thread before and I really like how you packed alot of railroad into a medium sized space without making it look too overcrowded. In your experience do you think it would be a bad idea to mount the joists to the L-Girders from above using some kind of sheet metal angle bracket?

Thanks again, Tom

L-Girder provides a very strong and ridgid foundation for your layout. other methods would consume more building materials (wood) to achieve the same strength. wood will warp over time for various reasons. L-Girder technique is designed to prevent this from happening and you will be happy in the long run with a solid foundation years down the road. model railroads weigh more than you might think. strong & sturdy foundation is a must.

 a house is only as good as its foundation. same with your model railroad. the technique may seem odd at first, but you will enjoy the benefits once you get it going.

DingySP:

I've seen that thread before and I really like how you packed alot of railroad into a medium sized space without making it look too overcrowded. In your experience do you think it would be a bad idea to mount the joists to the L-Girders from above using some kind of sheet metal angle bracket?

With all the hundreds of things you have to get under the layout to do (wiring, switch linkages, attaching roadbed to the risers, etc), what is the big deal about screwing in the joists from the bottom?  If you had a 10 x 20 room with around the walls layout with 16' OC joists, you would only be securing about 40 joists, that's only 80 screws.  Heck, if you start from one end you could lean over from the top and screw them up into the bottom without crawling under the layout.  Seems like a lot of obsessing over a pretty minor thing  I've handlaid about 1/3 of my layout 12x23 layout and I've gone through about 5000 spikes and about 3 boxes of various drywall screws on the benchwork.  Driving 6 dozen screws for joists out of the several hundred I've driven in from the bottom doesn't seem like such a big deal (two for every switch, 4 to 10 for every joint in the roadbed, one to four for every riser with 2-3 risers per joist) .  Its an awful lot of worrying about a job that shouldn't take you more than two or three hours at the most.

Just wondering if anyone has done it that way or if everyone screws them in from the bottom.

No biggie.

  I have to agree with those who said that L-girder is very flexible, forgiving, and easy to assemble.  I think it works best either as a support system for a shelf or around-the-walls layout, or for a "permanent" layout that would include smooth fascia, long, flowing backdrops, and things like gorges and "below grade" scenery.  Kalmbach publishes an excellent book that takes you through building L-girder benchwork step by step.  Furthermore, it is incredibly sturdy for a bunch of lumber that is basically just screwed together, and some components can be mass-produced.

In my particular case, I started out thinking I would use a "pure" L-girder construction.  Then I decided to construct sections (as opposed to uniform modules) that fit together pretty much like an open-grid.  Basically, each section is an open box frame that fits a given portion of the layout, and takes the place of joists.  By keeping one dimension 30 inches or less, the sections can be disassembled and carried through a door.  The complication is that now instead of just cutting a 1x4 for a joist, you have to cut at least 4 pieces to build a frame, and figure out how you are going to join them at the corners, and how you are going to manage the spans of a 24" by 54" inch box (for example).

The interesting thing is that I had built the legs and the girders first, so now the sections sit on top of the girders, screwed in from underneath in just a couple spots, and then bolted together where the faces meet. 

 I don't know if this fogs the issue or not, but this is what worked for me.   Good luck.

Here's some of mine.

The around-the-walls part could (maybe should) be cantilever to avoid all the legs while working underneath.  In my case the walls are only strong enough to insulate stone block walls.  I also wanted a lot of storage underneath: a removable box will be on top of the beam where 2 pairs of legs are joined together.

The front joists are screwed from underneath - easy since the joists don't extend far from the girder. Note in the first picture that the rear girder is pointed the same way as the front girder to get the screws in and avoid using cleats.  It is unlikely joists will be moved in this area.

The joists near the wall are screwed into cleats.  Note in the 2nd picture that the rear L-girder is pointed opposite the front girder (the way it's normally done).   It is likely joists will move in this area, and cleats are easier than screws far from the aisle.

I use L-girder and open grid.  Bottom line is design the benchwork to work with the track plan.

Thanks for your input guys.

L girder is the prefered choice for construction of the club layout. The advantages of "L" girder outweigh box/ open grid for such a large "permanant" layout.

Use of taller 1x stock allows greater span between legs if needed (some have even fabricated "I" beam like the engineered TJI joists) to support greater distances.

The support legs are set inboard from the facia. Better look and less tripping when walking around.

Allows ease of riser for elevation, riser placement especially if joist/ riser needs to be skewed.

Allows for drastic scenery elevation changes, deep valleys, rivers and gorges.

Allows for any flowing shape or radiused facia.

Can run joists easier on a radian to set risers more perpendicular to track on full end turns.

Disadvantages are greatly reduced clearance beneath layout.

Any disassembly can be very difficult unless serious thought was used in the initial construction technique (as described above)

Some pics of our rather sizable layout

Various elevation/ level changes and track orientation (skewed joists)

Bridge abutments (or sub abutments) easily done or reworked