Electronics and DCC

MILW-RODR:

jwils1:

MILW-RODR,

You're probably aware of it but the Empire Builder requires a separate power supply, at extra cost, whereas the Zephyr price includes a power supply.  So the Empire Builder will cost you around $315 total and the Zephyr/DT400 combined would be around $295. 

There is a chance I used the wrong name but I don't think I did. I know it comes as a complete starter set and is priced on Digitrax and Walthers as 350 bucks rounded up. It was kind of the middle between the Zephyr and the Super Cheif. Unless I have the Super Cheif and the Empire Builder mixed up. But anywho the LTS wants about 280 for them and I've seen them in adds in MR for like trainworld and some place in NJ for like around 250. Here it is. I had it right, the Super Empire Builder Advanced set but digi has it listed under starter sets. Comes with the DB150 booster, DT400 throttle, UP5 panel, and LT1 cable...oh wait. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaah IIIIII got it. When you said power supply I was mistaking it for the booster. Ma bad. Ok now that I know where we are all at I will probably go with the Zephyr and then get a seperate DT400 throttle. That will let me be able to kind of hide the Zephyr unit then because I would never use it. Maybe figure out a way to get it mounted flush in the fascia or something in front of the yard or rail barge or what ever I go with. Well thanks for pointing that out to me, otherwise I would have bought it, got it home, then ran back to the LTS yelling about how I just got ripped off. I wouldn't have gotten ripped off just got proven I don't always open my eye's and read.

 Digitrax is a bit confusing though. They used to have the Zephyr listed under starter sets at $200 and then again listed under boosters for $180, but I think they both leveled them out to the lesser cost now. If they did I might wait and see if my LTS is going down on price too because they already want 180 for them.

 I always buy my DCC stuff from Litchfield Station as they are a very reliable and helpful supplier, and have free shipping for orders over $75.  The prices I used were from them.  If you go with a Super Empire Builder you want to be sure you use the correct power supply.  I would go by Litchfield's recommendation.  Here is their website: http://www.litchfieldstation.com/lobby/index.htm

 You can get better pricing from someone like John's Hobbies but I don't know anything about them or what shipping costs are.  Most local hobby shop prices are often higher but then maybe you can get better service or help from them. http://www.johnshobbies.com/store/index.php?cPath=34_45

 As stated before, I personally would strongly prefer the Zephyr/DT400 combo.  Someday you could upgrade to radio and after Digitrax is ready with their duplex radio it should be a real winner.  I have their present simplex radio and it is excellent but duplex will offer great advantages and would be well worth waiting for.  That's the beauty of Digitrax as you can do all kinds of upgrades whenever you're ready.

That was one of the selling points for me, the upgradability. But now I'm really thinking because I found out if I go with my "what if" fantacy MILW railroad, alot of the engines I would like to have in MILW paint is available in N scale. More room for track, more money to buy loco's, and just plain old more locos. So Now I went from possibly running 2 to 3 at a time to running around 10. I need to stop thinkin.

MILW-RODR:

That was one of the selling points for me, the upgradability. But now I'm really thinking because I found out if I go with my "what if" fantacy MILW railroad, alot of the engines I would like to have in MILW paint is available in N scale. More room for track, more money to buy loco's, and just plain old more locos. So Now I went from possibly running 2 to 3 at a time to running around 10. I need to stop thinkin.

However you would be reaching the slot maximum for the Zephyr.  It has 10 loco slots, meaning you can have up to 10 active locos in use on your system.  You can have as many locos as you want on the layout but only 10 of them can be active and running at one time.  The Empire Builder has 22 slots and the Chief has 120.  This may or may not be a factor in your decision.

Another possible limitation with the Empire Builder is that I think it can only operate functions FO to F8.  The Zephyr is the same but when you add a DT400 or UT4 you can then access F0 to F12.  I don't think that this happens when you add these throttles to the Empire Builder but maybe someone else can verify this.

As for the CV readback limitation of the Empire Builder, I suppose you could use a computer interface (Digitrax MS100 for about $36), and then keep track of CV values on the free Decoder Pro software.  Maybe someone else can verify if it works this way but I think after programming any loco on the main layout with your DT400, you could then place the loco on an isolated progamming track and then read back all of the CV values into Decoder Pro.  Of course to do this you would have to have a computer in or near the computer room.

I don't want to confuse the issue with these various comments but just want you to be aware of as much as possible so you can make the best possible decision.

 Jerry is right two fold.

 Zepher can control F function to 12 with the DT 400, only 8 by it self. SEB can only control to 8 with the DT 400. Like I need to hear the brakeman cut wind.

 Zepher has the power to run 8 HO scale engines, we did it here and 3 where with sound.

 Far as

MILW-RODR:

Heck if she shuts my car doors too hard I make her apologize to the car. I'm not kidding either. We just sat there once for a few minutes because she slammed the door and refused to apologize the car because it was just a friggen car. Didn't move till she said sorry, and then it was a cruddy meaningless sorry so I made her give the car a meaningful apology, including why she was apologizing.

   Hummmmmmmmm, I am a car guy big time. But, you might want to rethink the above, or your trains will not be the only thing you will be playing with alone.

 I am glad I went with the Super Empire, I have 25 DCC engines and they just keep coming.

             Cuda Ken

All Digitrax command stations DB150, DCS50, DCS100, DCS200 can only handle up to F8.

But.... Any DT400 or UT4 can handle up to F12. That's because the throttle handle the extra functions. Digitrax built that into the firmware of their command stations so that it wouldn't need to be upgraded simply to handle the extra functions. 

When the DT402's and UTwhatevers are released, they will control up to F28. Then you will be able to hear the brakeman pass gas.

Martin Myers

Martin:

Are you sure about that?  While I have no personal experience with the SEB, you statement seems to conflict with the information on the Digitrax wbsite.

This just came up on the Digitrax Yahoo group and those that reported back said that F12 DID work with their DB1500 and DT400. Also, if you have an interface and JMRI, try it out - JMRI lets you use up to F28 today. If you open a throttle in JMRI it has direct buttons for F0-F15, click the * and you get F16-F28.

                                          --Randy

jwils1:

As for the CV readback limitation of the Empire Builder, I suppose you could use a computer interface (Digitrax MS100 for about $36), and then keep track of CV values on the free Decoder Pro software.  Maybe someone else can verify if it works this way but I think after programming any loco on the main layout with your DT400, you could then place the loco on an isolated progamming track and then read back all of the CV values into Decoder Pro.  Of course to do this you would have to have a computer in or near the computer room.

It looks like I was wrong about the above method.  Instead, you would need to do as Randy Rinker suggests in another thread ( http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/103914.aspx?PageIndex=5 near the bottom of the page).  By using the Digitrax PR3 plus a small power supply along with the JMRI software, you could read back CVs on a progamming track separate from the layout.  This would be a good work-around for the Empire Builder.

 This is not necessarily something you would need to do right away but is another nice upgrade possibility with Digitrax.

My available track size just got bumped from a room to where ever I can find a spot ona bare wall. So my concern about the Zephyr control not walk-around friend is no longer a concern. Neither is having more than one throttle. I will be going with a Zephyr system, and possibly a UT4 throttle just in case my fiance or our new roomie as of tomorrow wants to play alone. The new roomie even offered to help build the stuff so I get the feeling he might want to join in on the fun. My fiance will be easy to plase, all she needs is a controler with forward/reverse switch and throttle control. All she would care about is running it around, she could care less about the switching. My loco's will be from Athearn, Kato, and Atlas so I will even be able to stick with Digitrax for decoders when I can't get a loco in DCC from the get go.