General Discussion (Classic Trains)

You got it right. Many people miss the 1950 Glacier series cars or simply overlook them. These additional Glacier cars made it possible for the Western Star to operate via Great Falls, MT. The Western Star was the actual workhorse of the GN before it was combined with the Fast Mail. It was the train that carried off-line sleepers during the summer months to and from Glacier National Park. They often carried SP sleepers from both Portland and Seattle to Glacier Park where the cars were used as the hotel space while there. From Chicago the Western Star carried eastern roads sleepers to Glacier National Park. Often the Western Star in summer months ran twenty cars. It must have really been something for the counter car and a 36 seat dining car to cope with. I believe that the Western Star dining cars were later increased to 40 seat cars. I have seen the Western Star travel in sections when it was combined with the Fast Mail at Christmas times. I read somewhere once where the Western Star was called the fastest freight in America. That was after it received SDP40s for power. Later the SDP40s and SDP45s could be found on either the Empire Builder or Western Star. I liked the Western Star yet probably rode the Builder three or four times as much. Summer in the 1950's found both trains operating full. Over on the NP the Mainstreeter never came close to the Western Star in passenger loads or as classy a train. One experience on the Mainstreeter was enough for me. The North Coast Limited was a class act and enjoyed it especially the way they placed the domes in the consist with a flat top car separating them. Once had the Navy travel office at Pier 91 in Seattle book my trip from Seattle to Chicago and they booked space on the North Coast Limited. From Chicago I rode the old North Shore to Great Lakes Naval base. I was there less than a month and was transferred once again to Boston Naval Shipyard. Had the opportunity to take the NYC New England States to Boston from Chicago.

Your Question Zephyr Overland

Al - in - Stockton  

passengerfan:

Your Question Zephyr Overland

I think you meant Texas Zepher.  

ZephyrOverland:

passengerfan:

Your Question Zephyr Overland

 

I think you meant Texas Zepher.  

Al - in - Stockton

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

Texas Zepher:

Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

Texas Zepher:

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

 

The Chicagoan and the World's Fair Special.

ZephyrOverland:

 

Texas Zepher:

 Between 1941 (start of WWII) and February 1964 the NYC consolidated named passenger trains out of New York City from 21 to 9.  Seven of the 9 remaining in 1964 trains were in the original 21.  Name the two that were not. 

The Chicagoan and the World's Fair Special.

Those would be the two!  

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New York NYC 1941 

 No. Time  Train
43    2:00  Express to Chicago
 9     4:45  Local to Buffalo  (oops I said they were all named trains)
51   9:00   Empire State Express to Cleveland
 5   9:30   Mohawk to Chicago
39 12:30  North Shore to Chicago via Detroit
41   2:30  Knickerbocker to St. Louis
15   4:15  Ohio State Limited to Cincinnati
37   4:20  Advance Commodore to Chicago
67   4:30  Commodore to Chicago
 3    5:30  Pacemaker to Chicago
25   6:00  20th Century Limited to Chicago
17   6:05 Wolverine Chicago via Detroit
19   6:40 Lake Shore to Chicago
47   7:00 Detroiter to Detroit
11   8:00 Southwestern to Cleveland
21   8:05 Lake Erie to Cleveland
29   9:00 Niagra to Chicago via Detroit
35 10:40 Fast Mail to Buffalo
59 11:30 Iroquois to Chicago
63 11:50 Genesee to Buffalo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York City - 1964

95   6:40  Express to Buffalo
51   8:45  Empire State Express to Cleveland
39 12:00  World's Fair Special to Chicago via Detroit
15  3:00  Ohio State Limited to Cincinnati
25  6:00  20th Century Limited to Chicago
17  6:15  Wolverine to Chicago via Detroit
57  7:00  Cleveland Limited to Cleveland
35 10:30  Iroquois to Chicago
59 11:15 Chicagoan to Chicago 
------------------------------------------------------

Your turn. 

OK - here's the question:

A train name that was used by Amtrak was also used on a heavyweight Seaboard Air Line train several decades earlier.  Name the SAL train and endpoints.

Among SAL heavyweights at one time were the Orange Blossom Special (heavyweight all- Pullman into the diesel era), the Palmland, and the Sunland.   As passenger traffic fell off and second hand FEC cars were available, the latter two ran mostly lightweight, but I do remember when they were heavyweight.   I believe Amtrak did use the Palmland name.   But possibly it was the Sunland.   They did not use the Orange Blossom Special name as far as I remember.

daveklepper:

Among SAL heavyweights at one time were the Orange Blossom Special (heavyweight all- Pullman into the diesel era), the Palmland, and the Sunland.   As passenger traffic fell off and second hand FEC cars were available, the latter two ran mostly lightweight, but I do remember when they were heavyweight.   I believe Amtrak did use the Palmland name.   But possibly it was the Sunland.   They did not use the Orange Blossom Special name as far as I remember.

Amtrak never used the Palmland name.  You may be thinking of the Palmetto.  Amtrak considered using the Orange Blossom Special name but CSX would not allow it.  The name I'm thinking of was actually used by Amtrak.

The other SAL heavyweight trains I could find (they were not a very creative bunch) were:

Seaboard Florida Limited 1901-1930
which became the New York Florida Limited until 1941
which became the Palmland until 1968 (which doesn't quite make sense because other references show this train as lasting to Amtrak which would have been 1971).

Southern States Special 19xx (0x or 1x)
which became the Sun Queen in 1941
which became the Camellia in 1947
which became the Sunland in 1948

Atlanta-Birmingham Special 1915
which became the Robert E. Lee in 1930
which became the Cottom Blossom during WWII (194x)

Suawnee River Special 1921  (Cincinatti to Naples)

New Orleans-Florida Limited 1924-1949
which became the streamliner Gulf Wind

as already mentioned the Orange Blossom Special 1925-1953. 

I've not been able to find record of Amtrak using any of these.  They had the Gulf Breeze 

Texas Zepher:

The other SAL heavyweight trains I could find (they were not a very creative bunch) were:

Seaboard Florida Limited 1901-1930
which became the New York Florida Limited until 1941
which became the Palmland until 1968 (which doesn't quite make sense because other references show this train as lasting to Amtrak which would have been 1971).

Southern States Special 19xx (0x or 1x)
which became the Sun Queen in 1941
which became the Camellia in 1947
which became the Sunland in 1948

Atlanta-Birmingham Special 1915
which became the Robert E. Lee in 1930
which became the Cottom Blossom during WWII (194x)

Suawnee River Special 1921  (Cincinatti to Naples)

New Orleans-Florida Limited 1924-1949
which became the streamliner Gulf Wind

as already mentioned the Orange Blossom Special 1925-1953. 

I've not been able to find record of Amtrak using any of these.  They had the Gulf Breeze 

 

Good work on the research, but the train I'm looking for isn't in your list.  If it helps, there was no connection between the SAL train and the Amtrak train. 

TZ missed naming the Cotton States Special, which split off from the Southern States Special in Hamlet, and headed for Birmingham. This was eventually displaced by the Silver Comet,

I don't know just what span of years the trains were operated, but towards the end of the thirties SAL had the overnight Birmingham Owl and Atlanta Owl, which ran between Atlanta and Birmingham.

I rather doubt that this was properly heavyweight when it was inaugurated, but a 1910 SAL TT shows the Flamingo (yes, SAL had one, too) between New York and Florida points. Of course, Amtrak has not yet operated a one-legged bird.

In 1941, I rode the New York-Florida Limited and the Robert E. Lee. My mother, my oldest brother, my youngest brother, and I boarded in Camden to go up to Virginia to visit relatives. Since we were being met in McKenney, where the New York-Florida Limited did not stop, we detrained in Raleigh and waited for the Robert E. Lee, which did stop at McKenney, on flag. And, except for my oldest brother, who was in college, we were riding a pass. Going back home, we boarded the New York-Florida Limited  in Petersburg becasue it did not stop in McKenney-- and the conductor did not ask for any fare even though the pass read from McKenney to Camden. The day after we got back home, I started to school.

Johnny

The Tidewater?  Jacksonville to Portsmouth.