Toy train operating and collecting

Yes, I agree 2009 cat. prices out of hand, so much for china,   How about bringing those jobs back to the USA and I would not mind paying those prices. Lionel and every other manufacturer (not just toys) has sold this country out .   look at the mess were in  . Thanks!!!!

Unlike others, I like the overall catalog presentation and I liked quite a few items from the "Ready To Run" and "K-Line by Lionel" catalogs.

That said, yes, the price increases seem rather dramatic on some items. $40 list for the basic standard rolling stock is a lot for a car with plastic trucks in comparison to MTH Rugged Rails, Williams, RMT and Industrial Rail cars, which all have die-cast trucks. And especially considering that many prices increases on starter types of products are for itmes that are NOT from new costly tooling and dies. I wish Lionel would reconsider the price increases at least on the lower end items, which I think could hurt the recent increases in sales they've had on such items.

BUT as far as being made in China and the perception of that keeping prices down one needs to go back to what Dick Maddox said when the decision was made. He stated Lionel needed to be competitive and he meant new scale products from brand new tooling (that is STILL costly even in China). One only needs to look at Lionel catalogs before and after the official plant move to China to see that.

A thought has come to a few folks that with the purchase of Sanda Kan by Bachmann, they may have raised their production costs and so these price increases are being passed down the line? Just a potentional possibility. We have yet to see new catalogs from the other companies that are also using Sanda Kan as their production vendor.

MTH is in a better circumstance here having their own production facility. But even they may have to raise prices due to the same increased raw material and shipping costs that effect all the others.

Regardless of all that, I agree with others that it seems like a bad move to raise prices so much on a line of products that are non-essential at a time when the economy is in so much turmoil. And again, specifically on low-end products that are not from new tooling. There are items I like in the first two catalogs, but nothing I couldn't live without either. Guess we'll see how the new distribution changes at Lionel play out in their discount prices. For me, even a discount price of $30 is a lot to pay for a basic starter set train car, even if I do like it.

LIONEL's MSRP on a lot of it's product is prohibitive to the average buyer this time around.  Nice seeing the new offerings, but c'mon, a diesel is a diesel and nothing justifies those prices.  I thought the Grand Central station tooling was beautiful, but again, out of my budget.

Might as well leave this stuff on the docks, Jerry.

Did I read the description of GCT correctly? The whole building does not seem to be cast resin, just the decorative features. The building itself seems to be made of "heavy" cardboard or posterboard. To me, that doesn't justify a $ 1,500.00 price. I have made a wish list of 9 items but I am not sure I will "pull the trigger" on all of them.

High 20's tonight in the Sunshine State. Durn Yankee weather!!!!!!!

Some pre-order pricing on-line:

http://www.legacystation.com/Preorder.htm

Looks like the dealer margins are reasonably decent as the preorder 20% off on the high end stuff, plus the rebates brings the price of the Santa Fe steamer down as low as $1499, which is pretty much the same street price as previous JLC series stuff. Time to ungnash those teeth and sew up those rended garments, the apocalypse hasn't arrived after all.

The Genset diesel after discount and $100 rebate is around $540, a far way from the $800 MSRP.  People tend to forget that Lionel's dealer margins are significantly higher in many instances than Atlas or MTH have been.  The New Haven traditional EF4 Rectifier with TMCC/RS I'm interested in is under $300.

Say what you want ! Toy trains must be doing good in this slow economy!

Both MTH and Lionel are now sponsors of that other site

The prices are swaying me closer to 2 rail brass everyday . I can live without anymore crew chat engines ... for extremely higher detail and quality of brass engines . I'm thinking of halting all O guage lionel...williams and k-line and getting into brass .  Lionel is convincing me now that they have very little competition and are going price crazy . When Ebay finally runs dry on pre - lionel and older williams and the k-line originals look out .... the prices of those have already sky rocketed in the last 6 months and MTH is'nt doing any less ! 

I for one find this catalog to be a mixed blessing.Sure there really isn't much and I don't really agree with some of the production choices (The 613 UP Diesel set for one), and there really isn't much I want to get other than the 2343 Santa Fe F3's and the White Pass NW2 with the white pass caboose and ice breaker car.

But the blessings are

I won't be spending as much on trains this year (its my senior year in high school so thats a good thing, but I guess its always a good thing)

I'll be able to catch up on purchases I wanted to make in the past (The new W&ARR 4-4-0 and passenger cars or the Hogwarts Express come to mind, maybe even the 0-6-0 Docksider or a new ZW Transformer)

Also having some extra money will en-able me to have the smoke unit pepaired and headlight re-placed (long story) on my Erie 4-6-4 Hudson, which was part of the first Lionel train set I got for christmas.

I personally think that Lionel could have made better choices for the Conventional Classics Line. A 736 or 2046 freight set would have been nice, and instead of the UP 613 set a Seaboard 6250 set. I would have loved to see a re-make of the 1615 work train set from 1955 or a Texas Special freight or passenger set, or even a 746 or 773 set, but all in good time I guess.

Cheese

The way I look at it... I'm about to start building the city on the layout this coming summer... so good timing on the few items I want... Cowen's Corner Hobby Store, Pet Store, and Crabby Matt's. Guess I stop by the LTS later this week and put in my order... also just realized there are a couple things I missed in the Vol2 catalog...

SchemerBob:

Probably what I liked the most out of the catalog was the Acela HHP-8 set. I wish they'd put a Genesis diesel in the set instead, but it still looks pretty cool. Getting the locomotive, three cars, an oval of track and transformer for only $500, it looks like the best deal in the book. An interesting note, however, that the HHP-8 doesn't have RailSounds or TrainSounds - the catalog lists the engine as having a "horn and bell" but nothing else. Oh well, there isn't much to electric engine motor sounds anyways. The engine IS command-equipped, though, so that's a good deal, too. I also liked how they divided some of the products by railroad and region. The new White Pass equipment was interesting...

There are, of course, some strange things as well. What's with the Santa Fe SD40 and all those silver freight cars?

I too like the Amtrak set.  My layout has a 1950's theme but I think it would be cool to have that futuristic Amtrak set running.  I will wait and see what the final product looks like, I was also disappointed with the "horn and bell" description.

I thought the ATSF work set was pretty cool.  I don't like the Pullmor motors, but the crane and related cars appeal to me.

Regards,

John

I too thought the Amtrack set looked rather attractive for the price. Especially with command control.

The Classic series UP work train.....I absolutely love that set. In addition, the originals in excellent or better condition are a tough find, pricey, and aren't the greatest runners with their cheesy sheet metal power frames. It's likley the re-issue will be a smoother preformer.

The number of affordable standard O offerings far exceeds the Vision Line offerings. The CN coal train looks really cool. Same goes for the ATSF hoppers, That's just the stuff that jumped out at me.

I don't get the teeth chattering over Vision. It's for the rivet counter. There is something for every budget in the catalog.

I havn't looked at the entire catalouge yet, (just the vision line and the Conventional Classics) and I like both the GENSET and ES44AC Hybrid models. I should make a decision on which won I want - if they don't cancel either one of them.

I just hope they live up the $800-$1000 price tag.

Nothing really good.  Priced too high.  Priced like that, I'll buy Atlas O.  May be [wash my mouth out] buying more MTH engines.  Lionel has flubbed the dubb.

Chief .... those are the same 2 conclusions I came to in the last 3 days after seeing the catalog . Atlas ... which is exact/true scale and MTH engines .... still descent priced compared to the others . Believe me ... I NEVER thought I'd be buying MTH  but they're looking darn good ! I finally concluded with my cab-1 I can still run MTH in conventional type mode until I find a good deal on a dcs control system .... I've written off williams ... man have I viewed alot of problems with some of them .... reverse swithches and boards to name a few ...  I sold a cab forward to my bro-inlaw .... a guy on ebay then tried to rip me off for the one I thought I was getting ... now MTH is what I'm shopping for . The new williams engines are in my opinion way less craftsmanship than the older brass units . No ... no newer lionel ... older units on ebay .... still descently priced .