Toy train operating and collecting

Hi RT,

  You have a Good Eye, You replied while I was busy on the keyboard myself, YEP, those are 1x4"s but 6', not 8'.

  The pic I posted while you were posting does have a few DIESEASELS (pun intended) I do have a few more diseasels, some MTH F-3's a PS2 ABBA UP set, anMTH PS2 Santa Fe ABA Warbonnet set and a straight horn only MTH F-3 UP ABA set and a couple of switchers, plus some RMT Beeps, UP & SP. But as you can see my Heart is in Union Pacific steam, with a Growing interest in SP steam (and what collection is COMPLETE without at least one warbonnet set?)

  The first 2 pics posted were taken to start inventorying for my insurance. My Home was burglarized in July, and almost everything in those pics, except the Scale Big Boy(didn't have it yet) was displayed when they broke in,I had only had the Scale SP GS-4 for about 2 weeks at the time, and they didn't touch ANY OF IT, not even kicked them around to be jerks (WHEW ) but they did steal my PC, and my entire gun safe, as well as some other smaller items.

Doug

I'm glad there not much diesels!!!! Steamer's rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was a bit confused by the article as well. I don't see how the collector value of a 681 or 2020 could be decreased by a 'reissue'. The newer item is not the same as the original, and quite frankly never could be. That is like saying my 1700 Georgian Table has been devalued because Bobby Jo made a reproduction in 2008!

That being said, there is no gaurantee that the engine, table, car, house, you bought 20+ years ago is going to be worth what you, let alone more! I'm not aware of a single item, other than a Rolls Royce, that increases in value once you purchase it. Most items decrease with age and use. What blows my mind is people thinking that the item SHOULD be worth more? I buy my trains to run. I have 681 and 2020 that sit on a shelf right now because I don't have a layout to properly run them - mine is 100% TMCC/Legacy. I could, if I wanted, run them one the first level of the layout, and I may at some point, but my intent is to eventually build a 1950's era type layout to run them on. The common theme here is 'run them', if you are a collector that is your choice, note 'choice', there are no gaurantees that your purchase is going to increase in value. Lionel, MTH, Weaver, Williams by Bachman, etc are in business to make money and stay in operation - not release items on a limited basis to make your purchase worth more.

rant over.

lionroar88:

I was a bit confused by the article as well. I don't see how the collector value of a 681 or 2020 could be decreased by a 'reissue'. The newer item is not the same as the original, and quite frankly never could be. That is like saying my 1700 Georgian Table has been devalued because Bobby Jo made a reproduction in 2008!

The re-issues only hurt the value of pre and postwar originals that are restored or cobbled junk. High grade original stuff is still worth a lot of money. Otherwise, one scratch and it's worthless.

Train collecting became a popular hobby in the 1950's. Collectors didn't think of return then. It wasn't until the 70's and 80's, toy trains saw real price esculation due to supply and demand laws. Because of it, people came to expect a return. Especially when they were born into collecting during the price esculation period.

One of the biggest mistakes speculators often make when it comes to collectibles is they go after what's hot and pay collector prices. When things cool off as they sometimes do, they feel they got burned.

3railguy:

lionroar88:

I was a bit confused by the article as well. I don't see how the collector value of a 681 or 2020 could be decreased by a 'reissue'. The newer item is not the same as the original, and quite frankly never could be. That is like saying my 1700 Georgian Table has been devalued because Bobby Jo made a reproduction in 2008!

The re-issues only hurt the value of pre and postwar originals that are restored or cobbled junk. High grade original stuff is still worth a lot of money. Otherwise, one scratch and it's worthless.

Train collecting became a popular hobby in the 1950's. Collectors didn't think of return then. It wasn't until the 70's and 80's, toy trains saw real price esculation due to supply and demand laws. Because of it, people came to expect a return. Especially when they were born into collecting during the price esculation period.

One of the biggest mistakes speculators often make when it comes to collectibles is they go after what's hot and pay collector prices. When things cool off as they sometimes do, they feel they got burned.

Now that I got my issue, I can comment on the commentary. He doesn't criticize manufacturers for making re-issues, he just explained the kind of element that caused the bottom to fall out of Fundimensions. Lou was just making observations of the market much like many of us here do. He was right on target. He quotes "it was fun" but he's speaking for the collecting community. Yes, the GS-2 is different than the GS-4 but it was close enough that it drove the bottom out of the GS-4. He ends his commentary with "Keep searchin". In other words, continue having fun collecting toy trains.

I'm still holding on to my baseball card and matchbook collections, 'cause they're gonna be worth real money someday!

I too was confused by the article, frankly I find the comparison of "the day the music died" in very bad taste.

Further as a MPC Collector/Operator, I take issue with early MPC as being "unimpressive".

Right from the first products in 1970, MPC came out with improved graphics and paint jobs, and some flashy products like the Gold Chessie Geep.  MPC's reissue of PW classics also started well before it divided the line into "traditional" and "collector" lines.

More to the point, some older products and MPC re-issues lost value simply because better, more advanced products started to be made, and continue to be made today. The investors who were

storing away MPC collector products never seemed to consider the fact that O gauge trains would continue to grow (again) in popularity and evolve as newer tech. advances became available. Model Trains of any gauge are not a static product, the hobby would die if they were.

It was mentioned by another poster to this thread operators of smaller gauges can often find bargains at meets to grow their fleets in one fell swoop, well today, many operators can grow their O gauge empires thanks to MPC product.  

 
Model Trains are a HOBBY, not an INVESTMENT.

If your looking for a "sure thing" to make money on, try a passbook, or statement  savings account. Yes, many banks still offer them.

Ken  

krapug1:

Right from the first products in 1970, MPC came out with improved graphics and paint jobs, and some flashy products like the Gold Chessie Geep.  MPC's reissue of PW classics also started well before it divided the line into "traditional" and "collector" lines.

MPC is a blast from the past for me because I was a young teen when it was made and yearned for it. But, I settled for $2.00 Athearn kits because it was all I could afford. I had the 1970 poster catalog hanging on my wall for years.

MPC did a lot of merger schemes I remember as a youth such as BN, PC, and ICG. They tooled many modern items that I saw on the real railroads such as hi cubes, auto racks, and U boats. The mechanicals aren't as good as postwar but like you say, the graphics are superior in many respects. Things like Frisco or BN U boats are major eye candy and knock my socks off.

MPC may not run as well as the new stuff or postwar for that matter. With some TLC, it runs well enough, however. I am amazed at how MPC clicks through Fastrack switches and crossings. It's like Kato on Unitrack. Collecting MPC becomes a sport when you search dummys and bay windows to go with powered units or pieces to make up a cataloged set. Plus, when you sober up after a buying binge, you find you spent no more than what a single Legacy diesel costs. It's all a lot of fun, really!

3railguy:

krapug1:

Right from the first products in 1970, MPC came out with improved graphics and paint jobs, and some flashy products like the Gold Chessie Geep.  MPC's reissue of PW classics also started well before it divided the line into "traditional" and "collector" lines.

MPC is a blast from the past for me because I was a young teen when it was made and yearned for it. But, I settled for $2.00 Athearn kits because it was all I could afford. I had the 1970 poster catalog hanging on my wall for years.

MPC did a lot of merger schemes I remember as a youth such as BN, PC, and ICG. They tooled many modern items that I saw on the real railroads such as hi cubes, auto racks, and U boats. The mechanicals aren't as good as postwar but like you say, the graphics are superior in many respects. Things like Frisco or BN U boats are major eye candy and knock my socks off.

MPC may not run as well as the new stuff or postwar for that matter. With some TLC, it runs well enough, however. I am amazed at how MPC clicks through Fastrack switches and crossings. It's like Kato on Unitrack. Collecting MPC becomes a sport when you search dummys and bay windows to go with powered units or pieces to make up a cataloged set. Plus, when you sober up after a buying binge, you find you spent no more than what a single Legacy diesel costs. It's all a lot of fun, really!

3railguy: you are absolutely right regarding MPC. At an estate auction last spring there was an incredible collection of MPC stuff at 1/4 ot 1/2 Original Price. I bought as much as my budget allowed, but wished I could have bought 4X as much. So may roadnames, so much variety, such nice looking stuff, such reasonable prices. Yet, as most of my collection is postwar, I recognize there is a difference...nothing seems to me to have the heft, and sometimes ,the detail of early postwar. Still, it's possible that I am forever biased by my first trrains being those postwars. It seems to me that a train should not only look substantial, it should also feel substantial. Oddly, I don't feel at all that way about cars, but possibly do feel that way about cameras.

I woun't really know what my conclusion is on postwar vs modern (MPC at least- haven't even touched really modern) until I grow my layout enough to run it all. And that kind of ongoing evaluation I think is part of every dealer, reseller, and collector's value calculation.

runtime

lionroar88:

The re-issues only hurt the value of pre and postwar originals that are restored or cobbled junk. High grade original stuff is still worth a lot of money. Otherwise, one scratch and it's worthless.

Reissues certainly have impacted the values and collectability of prewar and postwar originals. Before most items were re-issued, the standards for what was considered to be an "acceptable" condition to collect were much more relaxed than they are today. One scratch did not render an item to be considered uncollectable. So the value of these lesser condition items, is dimiinished. There is a whole world of trans that are neither High grade original nor cobbled junk.  As far as restorations go, I would rather have a good or very good original, as opposed to a restored one. I guess that I am in a shrinking minority on that point.

runtime:

Yet, as most of my collection is postwar, I recognize there is a difference...nothing seems to me to have the heft, and sometimes ,the detail of early postwar. Still, it's possible that I am forever biased by my first trrains being those postwars. It seems to me that a train should not only look substantial, it should also feel substantial. Oddly, I don't feel at all that way about cars, but possibly do feel that way about cameras.

I was into postwar for years but was bit by the MPC bug about a year ago. Yes, the difference between MPC and postwar is substantial in both looks and operation. You just about have to segregate it in display and operation if the feel and look of it all concerns you. MPC diesels with traction tires don't pull postwar cars very well at all. They (MPC diesels) are best suited with free rolling MPC cars.

I try to read my CTT magizine cover-to-cover but I never get through Mr. Polumbo's article. He never makes sense to me nor is he interesting.  I often wonder why the magizine carries a piece by him at all.

 Jim

Lou tosses around alot of the old school thinking that sometimes doesn't make sense in today's demographics. He's been in the hobby for many years and pretty enthusiastic about it.