Prototype information for the modeler

When a passenger train is said to run in two sections does it mean just that?  That the train is split into two separate locomotive led units under the one train number and schedule?  I'm sure the answer is obvious, just want to make sure.

Thanks, Eric

A passenger train in sections usually means two or more complete trains operating on the same operating timetable schedule, generally 10 minutes apart.  The first section operates on the actual schedule with following sections coming after that.

The second and later sections were often more interesting because they may have less consistency in appearance than the initial train.

Mark

Each section was a complete train, with its own full crew.

Under TTTO rules, all sections ran on the same timetable authority.  All except the last section were required to display green flags by day and green classification lights at night.

A train scheduled to meet a train running in sections on single track would have to hold in the clear until the last section (the one with no flags and/or unlighted classification lights) had come through - unless otherwise instructed by train order.

Peter Josserand's Rights of Trains goes into excruciating detail about operating trains in sections - it's a heavy read, and mostly of academic interest to model railroaders with ordinary layouts.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

There is also no requirement that the sections be one right behind the other.  There could be other trains between the sections.

Maybe I should restate the question.  I'm a new to operations.  A scheduled passenger train is said to travel in two sections.  What does this mean.  Does the original train leave in one piece, and an extra train of odd cars follows?  Or is the original too long and separated into two pieces along the way?  

 Sorry, I'm a bit slow sometimes.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the responses.

  It could be either way.  Sometimes the lead section could be a coach section, and the following section may be all 1st class sleepers.  Running a train in multiple sections usually means that there is too many passengers than can be handles in a single section.  Rules governing total train length, the number of engines, or depot platform restriction all play into the decision.

  When I worked for the CB&Q, we ran 2 sections of #32.  The first section had the GN Empire Builder equipment, and the 2nd section had the NP North Coast Ltd equipment.  The second section left 5 minutes after the 1st section and chased the 1st section to Chicago.  The same was in reverse for #26.

  The PRR & NYC were famous for running extra sections of their Chicago-New York overnight trains.  The first section carries the observation car normally assigned, and the following sections were made up from their 'pool' of sleepers/dining cars/lounge cars.

Jim

Jim; Thanks, you answered my question and and gave me more info to boot.  I never considered rules etc. I quess one needs to know the ins and outs of operations of the particular roads themselves and GOV regs as well. 

Eric

Here's an odd end from back in the day...

Train crew reports to a West Coast port, and is given orders to run as, "First (fill in TT number of the fastest scheduled train.)

They find a train of express cars, with one sorry old day coach at the marker end - used only because the usual caboose couldn't handle the sustained speed.  The product - raw silk.  The mandate - get it to the East Coast, yesterday, if possible.

That train would be given rights over EVERYTHING - and if it got delayed, the responsible party had best have alternate employment lined up.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Somewhat related to the silk train Chuck mentioned, the Central Vermont was known on occasion to run an expedited freight as a second section of a passenger trains' schedule.

We've used that technique a couple of times on the Atlantic Great Eastern when we've had "hot" cars in the yard that we wanted to get out quickly. It turned a few heads, and was easy enough to do, since locomotives on the AGE are equipped to use flags to identify extras and sections.

tomikawaTT:

Train crew reports to a West Coast port, and is given orders to run as, "First (fill in TT number of the fastest scheduled train.)

They find a train of express cars, with one sorry old day coach at the marker end - used only because the usual caboose couldn't handle the sustained speed.  The product - raw silk.  The mandate - get it to the East Coast, yesterday, if possible.

That train would be given rights over EVERYTHING - and if it got delayed, the responsible party had best have alternate employment lined up.

The problem with this is planning when the section runs.  You can't just pick the fastest schedule.  You have to run it reasonably close to the schedule you are making the section for.  You can't run it early and you can't run it more than 12 hours after the schedule's departure time.  It also becomes dangerous if you originate it after the "first" section has departed.  So if No 2 departs San Francisco at 5pm, you really can't decide at 5:30pm to run a second 2 at 6pm.  Very dangerous.  Plus if you run it very late it will delay every opposing train for the meets.

If its a first class train in the superior direction then it already has rights over everything, there isn't any more rights you can give it.  If its in the inferior direction and you are going to give it rights over everything else and want it to go fast, run it extra with the same rights.  That will be even faster since it won't have to respect any station stop times (but will have to slow through yard limits).  It will probably use less orders than running a section more than an hour behind the schedule. If you run it as a section 10 minutes behind the regular train and there is a 30 minute stop in the schedule, then the second section will HAVE to stop for at least 20 minutes. An extra has no scheduled stops.

Dave H.

To follow up on what Jim said, the New York Central's "Twentieth Century Limited" sometimes ran in like seven or eight sections, I think up to as many as 14...in fact in time the railroad permanently scheduled an "Advance Twentieth Century" that started a couple of hours before the regular train. Generally a 4-6-4 could handle about 14-16 cars, if the train was bigger than that, it was divided into sections.

Re the Empire Builder, I've read that during WW2 it wasn't uncommon for a troop train to run as a section of the Empire Builder, or even an express freight carrying war related items (like tanks, airplane parts etc.).

wjstix:

To follow up on what Jim said, the New York Central's "Twentieth Century Limited" sometimes ran in like seven or eight sections, I think up to as many as 14...in fact in time the railroad permanently scheduled an "Advance Twentieth Century" that started a couple of hours before the regular train. Generally a 4-6-4 could handle about 14-16 cars, if the train was bigger than that, it was divided into sections.

An "advance" train wasn't a section but a seperate schedule with a similar name running earlier than another named schedule.  Under timetable rules there was no way to run a schedule in "advance".  A schedule train can depart on time or late, but never early.

Another use for the Sections were chartered or special trains. Shriners, Elks, Boy Scouts, etc would charter trains to their national conventions.  By running these trains as a Section of a Scheduled train the charter would have the same track right and superiority as the Scheduled train.  If they were not a Section they would be an Extra, and end up at the bottom of the pile.

 Phil

dehusman:

wjstix:

To follow up on what Jim said, the New York Central's "Twentieth Century Limited" sometimes ran in like seven or eight sections, I think up to as many as 14...in fact in time the railroad permanently scheduled an "Advance Twentieth Century" that started a couple of hours before the regular train. Generally a 4-6-4 could handle about 14-16 cars, if the train was bigger than that, it was divided into sections.

An "advance" train wasn't a section but a seperate schedule with a similar name running earlier than another named schedule.  Under timetable rules there was no way to run a schedule in "advance".  A schedule train can depart on time or late, but never early.

Yup, that's what I said...or at least what I thought I said. It was so common to run sections of the Century that eventually the NYC made one of them a separate scheduled train, the Advance 20th Century.