Electronics and DCC

 Thanks, now I'm going to go watch Animal House rather than work on my layout.

                             --Randy

To clarify, Randy, the bold and red-coloured text was NOT to highlight any typos I may have corrected; but to emphasize the part about which I was commenting.

By the way, I mentioned that I corrected the typos to avoid being accused of using inaccurate or "doctored" quotes.  I was taught that it is generally considered good form to indicate if an author has altered/edited (e.g.: added emphasis, corrected spelling, etc.) anything he quotes.  I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to using language -- which, in my opinion, is the most powerful, versatile tool humanity has ever devised, without which we could never have become what we are today.  I apologise if I offended you.

 Not offended. I guess I'm more used to seeing exact quotes with [sic] if there is some sort of spelling or grammatical error in the original, and since that was the only word in red, with the rest of the quote in bold black..

 Spelling, I can do. Typing is another story. My fingers don't move as fast as my brain most of the time. Back when they actually taught you how to spell properly and not phonetically, I actually was spelling bee champ in my school. As a long-time programmer, I never learned to properly touch type since most programmign keywords and construct don't follow the rules of English that make the keyboard layout work for typing. So I manage on 4 fingers or so and still get stuff out with good speed.

                                  --Randy

CSX Robert:

For the most part.  The  wireless throttles can not be used on the other systems without the wireless interface.  At first this may seem trivial, but if you have a Prodigy Advanced Wireless system and have a friend that has one of the other Prodigy systems, you can not take your throttle to your friends layout and plug it in and use it. With both Digitrax and NCE, the radio throttles can be used as a regular plug -in throttle on a layout that does not have radio.

Emphasas mine.

After reading this conversation earlier tonight I happened to be reading the "MRC Prodigy Wireless DCC throttle" product review from the February 2008 issue of MR.

It says:

The wireless throttle can be used as a tethered throttle as well, with or without the NiMh rechargeable batteries installed.

Later the article goes on to say:

You can operate the unit as a tethered throttle while it's recharging. However, this adds to the recharging time.

So maybe MR is wrong twice in the same product review, but it would seem that your statement that "if you have a Prodigy Advanced Wireless system and have a friend that has one of the other Prodigy systems, you can not take your throttle to your friends layout and plug it in and use it" is a little suspect.

CSX Robert:

According to the MRC tech who participates in the Yahoo MRC-DCC group, when you use the wireless cab "tethered," it draws power from the bus, but still communicates wirelessly, so you could only use it this way on a wireless system or with the wireless dongle. This information could be incorrect, but I assumed it was accurate since it came from an MRC tech.

I called MRC on Friday.  The tech on the phone said that you'd need a wireless dongle for use with any any system other than the Prodigy Wireless.

So if a person upgraded from Prodigy Express/Advance/Advance² to wireless then they'd have the dongle anyway as part of the upgrade process.  If the Prodigy Wireless comes with a dongle then it wouldn't be an issue, but it looks to me like the transmitter/reciever is built-in to the base station (I haven't seen the dongle listed in the parts list for the Prodigy Wireless setup).

Good to know that it could be an issue for people that ONLY have the Prodigy Wireless and visit a layout without a wireless dongle.

The dongle seems to add about $100 to the price of an MRC Prodigy Wireless throttle by itself.

I think using a Tech II for a throttle or for more power, on a DCC system is a bad idea,because the DC current in a Tech II isnt filtered. Thats why when I use my Tech II to run my DC/DCC sound locos they run/sound not so good.

 Pulsed power won't work as a Jump throttle for a Zephyr. Don't know what a Tech II puts out so can't comment on it's use.

A simple jump throttle can be built with a 9 volt battery, DPDT reversing switch and a potentiometer. Beyond the abilities or desires of many but the theory behind the jump throttle is really that simple. You need a variable DC output for speed and Reversing switch for direction. Zephyr takes it from there.

BTW, someone commented on the high cost of plug ins for Digitrax... See the little jack hanging just above the skirting in this photo? We have 20 of those on our layout for plugging in. $3 each.

TheK4Kid:

 I was running two trais on my layout , both pulled by BLI steam engines with Quantum sound, and using my MRC Prodigy Express DCC sytem.

Both trains stopped, but the sound systems kept working.,
but neither engine would move.
I turned off the power, and replaced the engines with two other BLI engines, both sound equipped.
Same situation, sound, but engines wouldn't move.

Next step was to disconnect my Prodigy Express system and hooked up my Bachmann Easy Command
system I use for another small train layout I have.
My BLI engines once again ran just fine, and all sound systems worked.

Apparently my Prodigy Express system has had some kind of failure.
I intend to send it in for repair through the LHS where I bought it, less than a year ago.

Now I have another question.

If I were to purchase a second Prodigy Express system, and my other system returns from repairs, can I use them together on the same layout?
I would eventually like to run 4 trains on my DCC layout.
Right now, part of my reasoning is this would also give me a second hand held to run a second train without having to change the adresss on the only handheld I have now.

TheK4Kid

I find it rather amusing in this thread that it rapidly devolves into an argument about which DCC system is best rather than actually trying to help solve the problem.

Having said the above, let me ask you, is that the full extent of your trouble shooting efforts? It seems to me like you're giving up too soon. Did you read the user's manual or go to MRC's site where you can find the user's manual. Trouble shooting instructions start at page 3. http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/trainsound/0001408.pdf

Questions:

1. When you substituted the Bachmann system, what did you do to acquire the locomotives?

2. Did you try to re-acquire the locomotives with the PE system? More to the point, why did you replace locomotives rather than try to use the originals after powering off/powering on?

3. Rather than using two locomotives, did you try to troubleshoot the problem one locomotive at a time on the tracks?

4. By sound systems working, does that mean that you could blow the whistle, ring the bell, turn headlight on/off or does it just mean that the engines made appropriate idling noises? If those functions worked, that would indicate to me that the cab was addressing the locomotive properly. If all you got were idling sounds, that's not surprising since all that depends on is voltage on the tracks.

5. How long were you running the locomotives before the problem presented itself?

6. Quantum sound systems (at least older ones) had a reputation for high current draw on startup. Could you be exceeding current capability of the PE?

Personally, I'd do a lot more testing before turning your system in for repair. I'm not saying that it's not defective, only that that I don't think that you've exhausted all possibilities.

EDIT: And then there's

Programming Broadway Limited/QSI Locomotives-  Depending on the vintage of these locomotives, some program well on a program track, some program well on the mainline, and some need a combination of programming on both. These dual function, sound equipped locomotives come with a Factory Default address of #3, and as stated previously, it is better to run them first on address #3, to make sure everything works correctly. Programming a four digit address into them can be a bit tricky, due to the fact that as you program them, they talk back to you to acknowledge the programming inputs.

Programming a four digit address is a two step process automatically performed by your DCC systems programming mode. First the system inputs the correct values into CV #17 and CV #18, to assign the four digit address, then step number two, your systems inputs the correct value into CV #29 to activate the four digit address. Because this two step process is sent to the decoder in micro-seconds, the decoder misses the second step, while the decoder is talking back to you to confirm the first step. In my experience with trying to program a four digit address into them:

Place loco on program track

Enter the Program Mode on Program Track

Input in your 4 digit address, [By the way, any address from 128 to 9,999 is considered a 4 digit address in computer language].

Press the “Enter” button.

Wait a few seconds, or for the verbal confirmation from the locomotive to finish speaking.

Press the “Enter” button four more times to enter the CV Programming Mode.

Your display shows- “CV#  Prog Track”, with “ _ _ _” underneath.

Input “29”, [for CV #29].

Press the “Enter” button.

Your display now shows- “CV Prog Track”, with  “_ _ _ Data”.

from:

 http://ccv-on30.com/Files/ProdigyAdvancedTips.doc

Andre

I had to send my MRC unit back to MRC to have the software updated to resolve a similar problem.  It's free and they send it back within a few days.  Call them first, they are very helpful and ask if sending it back makes sense.