General Discussion (Model Railroader)

I am looking at building a 2 level layout, and don't have the room to put in a helex to get up to the second level.  I have brought a woodland scenices incline set to get me started. I am seeking help in regards to the method used to get up to a second level, on a wood construction basis, and how to make it a smooth transition up to the second level. 

The woodland scenics incline set is 4% over 8 feet I belive to get me up there.  There will be a bridge crossing the main where the track meets on the second level.  Any help is much welcomed and thoughts

onrfanatic:

I am looking at building a 2 level layout, and don't have the room to put in a helex to get up to the second level.  I have brought a woodland scenices incline set to get me started. I am seeking help in regards to the method used to get up to a second level, on a wood construction basis, and how to make it a smooth transition up to the second level. 

The woodland scenics incline set is 4% over 8 feet I belive to get me up there.  There will be a bridge crossing the main where the track meets on the second level.  Any help is much welcomed and thoughts

A typical two-deck layout might have 18" or more between the levels, so you can see, and work on, the lower level, once the upper is in place. If this is what you want, you will need quite a long run to reach that height.

 Your post isn't clear--which do you want?

I am looking at doing a straight run, then it goes up and climbes around almost similar to a helex, but in one level, I am really tight for room wise, but a circular pattern, to get from the first level to the second level, I am not sure how to construct something like this

http://www.onrtrains.com/fellowcopy.pdf 

Above is a link to a track plan that was done, I intended to do a transistion from one level to another

Intersting schematic, but it isn't a track plan. Do you have one?

It would really help to figure out if what you want to do can be done in the Real World.

onrfanatic:

I am looking at building a 2 level layout, and don't have the room to put in a helex to get up to the second level.  I have brought a woodland scenices incline set to get me started. I am seeking help in regards to the method used to get up to a second level, on a wood construction basis, and how to make it a smooth transition up to the second level. 

The woodland scenics incline set is 4% over 8 feet I belive to get me up there.  There will be a bridge crossing the main where the track meets on the second level.  Any help is much welcomed and thoughts

Ok..I have a double subway that is 9" below. What I did was I ran a ramp, about 9-10" in from all sides . The size of the peninsula is 11'X6'. My layout is U shape. The 10" in was allowed so I can run the subway flush with the outside of the main layout, so it's exactly under the outside edge of the main layout. About halfway on the long side I started my ramp down under a mountain and it travels steady down for a total length of approx. 30 ft. I made a quite large wye turnaround plus a double crossing to go from the ramp to the subway. I'll try to take and post pictures over the weekend. I don''t know what the grade percentage is, but I can pull the Red Bird NY subway train up the ramp with the loco and 4 cars. I also can pull the NJ Transit with 10 weighted cars with 2 loco's with no problem coming up the ramp to the top.

This was a challenge and I did not just jump into it. I bought one of those artist sketch books, 2' X 3' in an artist store, computer size paper won't cut it, it's just too small for that kind of accuracy. Using an architect scale,  I made architectural drawings so I knew where I had to cut some of the frame work until I got below the layout frame. I made generous 5" witdth cuts in the frame. I also had to plan exactly where the ramp had to level off to the point of the beginning of the wye and double crossing for the subway.

The WS risers will get you up to 4" in height, however WS also produces 4" tall level sub-grade sections that can be used under the risers to increase the height.  On my own MR, I've used multiple sets of the sub-grades and risers (2%) to increase the elevation from 0" at the lowest point to 18" at the highest.  It's just a matter of 'stacking'.  

And yes, my MR is a two-level without a helix. 

Tom

Hi ONRF.

Just click on the link in the previous post that says "view my Layout".   It is the link to Tom White's layout construction.  There are real good photos there of what you are trying to accomplish.  Works pretty easy with the foam and the WS risers. Mine was all done with wood risers but I think if doing it again I would follow Tom's idea.

Reaching the other side without incident (Whew!).

Be sure to keep us posted as to how it is working for you. 

Johnboy out.........................

The "Wobbly"  will wobble again.

Another spin to adding foam spacers beneath the WS risers is creating a ramp from one level to the other using the foam itself.  I have a 16-inch rise to accommodate and instead of using a helix or wood risers, I considered cutting ramps from pink foam. The ramps would be adhered to the base layer with acrylic caulk.

I have a 40 foot run along a wall to use and calculated a 16-inch elevation rise in 40 foot worked out to .033 inch rise per running inch, or .396 inch per foot, or 3.168 inches in the 8 foot length of foam sheet. The second section would start a 3.2 inches (approx) and increase to 6.336.  Next section of the ramp would start at 6.35 and increase to 9.518.  Etc.

I figured 2 1-inch thick foam sections bonded together side-by-side would be strong and stable enough.  Still undecided but I figured it might be an alternative to constructing a helix.  I hate carpentry, a lot.

If your space is limited, you may find that you lose so much useable space making this very long ramp - and one that at 4% grade, only very short trains are going to be able to climb - that you end up losing more ground than you gain.

Just a thought - if you do a two-deck layout, there's no rule that says they have to be connected. They could be two different railroads, even two different scales - an HO mainline RR on the lower level, an On30 logging railroad on the upper level for example.

I'm doing that on the layout I'm working on now. The upper level is an HO point-to-point shelf layout concentrating on iron ore operations with ore yard and dock. The lower level will still be HO but will be mainline running, concentrating on passenger trains with a large 'big city' passenger station complex and a long mainline run.

onrfanatic:

I am looking at building a 2 level layout, and don't have the room to put in a helex to get up to the second level.  I have brought a woodland scenices incline set to get me started. I am seeking help in regards to the method used to get up to a second level, on a wood construction basis, and how to make it a smooth transition up to the second level. 

The woodland scenics incline set is 4% over 8 feet I belive to get me up there.  There will be a bridge crossing the main where the track meets on the second level.  Any help is much welcomed and thoughts

With respect to making a smooth transition between the two levels you may want to consider what is called a "no-lix" which is typically an around-the-room single loop transition between two levels. The term first was used by John Armstrong, but the first use of the design was possibly done earlier than when he coined the phrase.

I use a "no-lix' on my layout and here is an image of it while in construction:

Double track main line "no-lix" segment leading to upper deck level

Here are a few links to some previous posts using this concept:

Nolix versus helix - http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/3517.aspx 

Double Decker Layouts with no room for a Helix? - http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/129746/1459632.aspx#1459632

Lacking room for a helix the only way to attain the separation between the levels on a multi-deck layout is to ramp up from one level to the next and this is going to require a considerable linear measurement. John Allen did this on some of his designs; sometimes this ramp was hidden and sometimes it was exposed such as one finds at Caliente in Tehachapi Loop territory or at what is the Ophir Loop on the old Colorado and Southern in Colorado.

I once attended a clinic at a model railroad convention somewhere where a professional designer/builder relateded about overcoming a climb of 18" on a layout where the owner's age was not conducive to some kind of duckunder to inside a helix. He had about a twenty-one or twenty-two foot wall to work with and he ramped up behind a scenic divider on a 1:36 grade. His grade started in the right corner and ballooned in the left corner to climb the rest of the way up to the 18" level where it emerged again to view in the right corner a distance of about fifty four feet down-the-line from where it had disappeared! It worked and he had photographs to prove it.

Incidently, the owner of this layout was one of those zillionairs who owned and operated over two-hundred professionally painted brass locomotives--and this clinician had a photograph to prove it. Must be nice! Time to buy my Powerball tickets for Wednesday night's drawing! At the Circle K where I buy my tickets they always say "Good Luck!"; I always retort that luck has nothing to do with it--this is a job for miracles!

SPIRAL(S) can be incorporated along with a NOLIX.  This provides a quicker way to increase elevation along your route of the Nolix.  Spirals do not need to be perfect circles.