NEWS: Kader (Bachmann) ACQUIRES SANDA KAN

I was going to say after reading first line doesn't sanda Kan accually own K-Line and lionel just leases the K-line line. I was wondering if it is going to affect that lease any?

The lease agreement Lionel has with Sanda Kan has 2 more years left, if memory serves tonight. There was an optional extension of couple of years, too i think.

willpick:

The lease agreement Lionel has with Sanda Kan has 2 more years left, if memory serves tonight. There was an optional extension of couple of years, too i think.

What I meant when it ends to end it with Lionel and start doing it them selves since the now partner does most of the production of stuff like that anyway.

Just my opinion,but I do not think Sanda Kan would break a lease agreement that is making them money. If they did, Lionel might decide to sue them. I think that the lease will be allowed to expire, not be renewed, and then Sanda Kan will start making items for Kader, who will market them under the Williams name.

Just goes to show, there's always something new and unexpected that can happen. Probably way too early for anyone to know just what effects (if any) the average train buyer is going to see in the future. The thing that struck me as ironic (if the speculation above plays out) is that Williams once owned some of the dies that were eventually purchased by K-Line: the 6000 series of rolling stock including the box car, caboose, tank car and flat car. As I think was once written in the pages of CTT, old dies and tooling don't die, they just change owners.

As for Sanda Kan making money on the Lionel licensing agreement, remember SK was out $3.8 million when K-Line finally went under. K-Line couldn't even get product from SK towards the end without pre-payment. K-Line's tooling and assets were purchased by its principal manufacturer Sanda Kan in April 2006, who in turn, licensed them to Lionel as part of a licensing and marketing agreement. SK's interest was in part to stop losing money through MDK K-Line and to ultimately have more control in what was made and sold, again in order to hault the losses.

Remember, part of the reason for the agreement with Lionel was that SK is not a distributor with an extensive retail network. They're a vendor, for lack of a better word. They make the train products, which a company with a retail/distribution network buys from them to then be distributed and sold. It was in SK's interest to have an agreement with Lionel (it could have been anyone I suppose) to help recoup their losses.

I thought at that time it was announced, it was a two-year agreement with Lionel, which means it's just about over with now. I do recall reading there was an option for renewal on Lionel's part. So who knows what will happen.

Despite the feelings of some, that the K-Lionel products have been a disappointment, I don't think Lionel has suffered any harm from the affiliation or agreement. And if SK is having a say in calling the shots to what gets made, obviously the K-Lionel trains going into production are the ones that SK from their vantage point, think will sell. And if you check, there are several K-Lionel cataloged items that were cancelled shortly after the catalogs came out (the Burlington S-2, the NP Alco FA's, the NP passenger cars, the new ingot cars, etc).

Is there a possibility that Bachman will sell the K-Line products in the near future instead of Lionel or extend the lease with Lionel? If Bachman sells the K-Line products what will they call it? K-Line by Bachman or K-Line by Williams?

I guess there is a lot of guessing at what will actually happen to the future of the K-Line name.

Lee F.

How about K-line by Williams by bachmann

  In a letter to his customers in a Forum, Lewis Polk owner of Aristo-Craft Trains (a very large "G" scale company), explained that Aristo designs their products in the U.S.A., and then send the designs to SK in China to make the molds and "Test Shots" of the product.  After the final changes are made to the "Test Shots", a production run is ordered from SK based on customer interest.

  The rights to the design and the molds remain the property of Aristo-Craft.  SK is acting, basicly,  as a sub-contractor.  He also is very happy with the change in managment (return to original managment) with the sale by J.P. Morgan Asian Trust to the owners of Bachmann.

  Other than SK holding the K-Line molds in lew of K-Line payment in bankrupcy, I would think this could also be a good deal for Lionel, Atlas, Weaver, etc.