General Discussion

greyhounds:

Probably the most useful railroad that was lost was the Chicago, North Shore & Milwuakee.

Finish your business day, then go home on electric high speed trains while enjoying martinis and burgers. (In 1962 such things were acceptable.)  In contrast, to drive I-94/I-294 in a Chicago snow storm is to know terror.

Agreed!  And also agree with the other posters regarding the Tenneesse Pass.

Looking at the economics of various restorations gives a completely different picture. The Atlanta - Birmingham silver comet trail was not time or grade competetive with NS's. It would be better to double track NS's line by CSX with a joint use agreement. That would speed up Atlanta - BHM intermodal. . The silver comet abandoment was done without any idea of the traffic that CSX now runs from Atlanta to Birmingham. At least 8 CSX round trips a day (3 - 5 intermodal). Another CSX loss is the Raleigh - Petersburg, Va. SAL which may already slated for rebuild by the HSR proposal. Richmond - Hamlet ACL is very congested and is the main delay point for AMTRAK Florida service.The B&O line from Parkersburg - Cincinatti - St. Louis might be another for speedier intermodal.

I would like to see a discussion of new routes that are needed to mitigate weather exposure. One is an alternative to the runs through New Orleans. Another is the exposure of CSX in the Charleston - Savannah -Jacksonville corridor.Another is NYP - Bos. Another is the need for a flood proof routes through the midwest. 

greyhounds:

Probably the most useful railroad that was lost was the Chicago, North Shore & Milwuakee.

You could get on a train running the Chicago Loop (Downtown elevated trains for those of you in Rio LInda) and go to Kenosha, Racine, and into downtown Milwaukee.  Some of those trains even had a bar/grill car on the Chicago "L".

Finish your business day, then go home on electric high speed trains while enjoying martinis and burgers. (In 1962 such things were acceptable.)  In contrast, to drive I-94/I-294 in a Chicago snow storm is to know terror.

The North Shore lasted until 1963.

Darn!  You took mine.  In terms of economically viable and needed, this has got to be in everyone's top three, if not the undisputed king.  I assume this line never hauled significant freight like the South Shore?

My second vote would be the Rock Island line into Memphis.  Some people on here say it is not now needed by BNSF, but I have heard several industry people saying BNSF is kicking themselves for not acquiring it when they had the chance.  Thus, I think it would also be economically viable.

Finally, Ed's IC line to Evansville.  Ed and I have a running discussion as to whether it would be viable today . . . and I would like to win that bet . . . .

Gabe

blue streak 1:

I would like to see a discussion of new routes that are needed to mitigate weather exposure. One is an alternative to the runs through New Orleans. Another is the exposure of CSX in the Charleston - Savannah -Jacksonville corridor.Another is NYP - Bos. Another is the need for a flood proof routes through the midwest. 

Isn't that like saying every business in New Orleans or the southern Atlantic coast needs an alternate location in the midwest that they can evacuate to when a storm comes through? While weather related disruptions can be huge, it seems like the costs of maintaining new alternate routes would be much, much greater than any relatively infrequent catastrophic events. These alternate routes would basically be excess capacity during the other 99% of the time when there is not a weather disruption. Plus the cost of just constructing these new routes would probably exceed the losses of decades of weather related issues, so you would be looking at a long, long time before these new routes would be cost effective. Jamie

EDIT: Besides, my desire for CSX to resurrect the ATL-BHM line is strictly from a railfan perspective since I would love to see big time mainline trains along that line that I never got a chance to see.

In the Northeast there is lots of room for redevelopment.  The EL lines from NJ west then the LV line from Waverly, NY to Buffalo would utilize two great routes thrown aside by CR (LV best route from Southern Tier of NY to  Buffalo, EL route west from Hornel circumvents Buffalo congestion and winter snows. As a further note, the LV line is virtyally intact if greatly downgraded from Oak Island, NJ to Waverly, NY in the hands of regional and shortlines west of Allentown, PA).  The CNJ route across NJ, abandoned by CR and NJT when I78 was built...this line could help alleviate bottleneck congestion.  Of course the DL&W across NJ and the Poconos is being rejuvinated for passenger service, Scranton to Binghamton, NY intact under CP ownership; and the former Erie Delaware Div. from Port Jervis to Bingahmton, NY under the ownership of NS but leased to Central New York Railirad of the Delaware Otsego System with New York, Susquehanna and Western Rairoad operating it at minimum through service (Morristown and Erie is now operator of  branch from Lackawaxen to Honesdale, PA working to increase traffic, thus increase interchange with ? Susquehanna? CNY? NS?  Wonder if the NY and Harlem would be worth rejuvinating north of Wassaic on to Chatham and into Albany...commuter route, back up to Hudson line traffic problems for  Amtrak but also for MNRR in some ways (or instead of Albany, east to Housatonic RR and south to Danbury for MNRR regional operations?)  Up downeast, Portland, Me to Conway, NH then on to Canada on the former MC Mountian Div. could open Portland port to more traffic.  After all that is said and done, how about returning the second, third, and fourth tracks to service along the former NYC, PRR, B&O, LV, EL, etc. mains in use to increase the capacity which is forecast over the next 25 to 75 years!

I'd like to to see the Erie Lakawana rebuilt East out of Chicago.  When it was built it already had the clearances needed for double-stacks and it avoids congestion (and compounding delays) by travelling through smaller cities along the way.

Another good candidate is the C&O from Cincinatti to Chicago.  It would short-cut CSX's current route up through Deshler on those crowded lines.  One side benefit is the C&O and Erie share R/W in NW Indiana so you get two for one.

I'd like to see the MILW's mainline between Green Island and Council Bluffs revived plus the branch connecting Paralta (just east of Marion) with Jackson Junction (just west of Calmar) that went through my hometown of Edgewood, IA.   

MP173:

I would travel to Colorado to see train on Tennessee Pass.

 Rebuildung the Erie would improve competition in the North-East. Good idea, IMHO

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

 D&RGS all the way up to Grand Junction and down to Silverton, with spurs up to the top of the Grand Mesa ( for those of you who do not know it is the largest flat top mesa in the WORLD. also this colorado for you eastern folk. it is the other C state along with Connecticut. ) ok where were we? Oh yes also spurs up to Rifle, glenwood springs and spurs running out to, Paradox and Paonia.

Oh one more thing some of those lines are not real like the spurs but the mainline is acurate as far as i know.

Murray:

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

Ingenius!  However too good an idea to be taken seriously.

henry6:

Murray:

Rebuild Erie-Lackawanna and the Milwaukee Road as a Transcon.

Ingenious!  However too good an idea to be taken seriously.

I've heard this somewhere before.  Seriously, I got a case of deja vu when I read it.  I wish I knew more about where I heard this idea (probably before the lines were abandoned).

Trains magazine ran a column many years ago (30?) called the "Professional Iconoclast" who, among other things, advocated using both the Erie and the MILW as the basis for a transcontinental container route. The great advantage he saw to them was their lack of branchlines to minimize interference with/from other traffic. Almost makes today's capacity problems the deja' vu.

The C&O of Indiana got abandoned because of heavy grades and clearances.

Could the E-L, in conjunction with the Kankakee Belt, work well as a bypass around Chicago? 

B&O west of Parkersburg was a financial and clearances decision.  Today, I'm sure they wish they hadn't hurried.

Revive the NKP from Arcadia to the Indiana state line, it's all still there but R. J. Corman has it west of Lima and the NS is using it as a storage lot west of the state line to Portland, IN.  Still think that was an NS "Hurry up and get rid of it", shortsighted decision.