Layouts and layout building

I dont see the MR with the big aweinspiring layouts as something intimidating or unreachable. I am around a few dozen modelers whose skills far out rank mine and make me look like Im just a trainset person. That was 7 years ago. The room was given to me by the wife without any conditions except one. She gets the closet. So. It's my time to start working on the railroad.

A work bench went up first. Ok then 5 feet of track, followed by a switch, then a power pack a engine and so forth. Now I had a caboose and a train of one car. Then 10. As the train grew I realized that the room is too small for my plans. So something had to go. Tore up the big plans and started the train layout in each of the 4 corners once I had a maximum radius (OR a minimum that I can stand with the stuff I ran) The Kato Track started flying.

Why Kato? I know that room will be restored to an empty room at one point to be determined in the far distance future. I have my head stuffed with the teachings of those Disciples at the Altar of Handlaying track switches and cork church. But for right now... Sectional track, makes things happen and fast. I'll get to that fancy making track stuff when the new future addition to the house is complete... if ever.

That was two years ago. The wood went up this year. Last year the room was empty except for a circle of Kato track running a engine 25 cars and a caboose. It helped me discover a slope in the floor and caused to think about the pending benchwork and how to solve that slope.

Spring and summer will pass at the workbench building a industry. One that had a purpose and can be operated by one person using car cards in a manner of a load in of something and perhaps a load out of something going beyond the layout. I happen to like making Ball Bearings. So Hours and days were spent scouring the internet and books about Ball bearings. I used to haul the stuff and I used to haul the steel used to make the stuff... but I knew NOTHING about ball bearings. Does that make me expert now? No. But I think I have it together "Good enough" to generate ball bearing loads for each work day.

Someone told me what about building tractors or appliances? Or something else? Why stick with just one product? Taking away the Bearing matrix and replace it with the materials necessary to make tractors causes the industry to behave totally different and have different requirements. I dont have space for both a tractor plant and a bearing plant. But I can make it work with just the model industry I have in the one room. Just one at a time and do the other next week for example.

Fall passed into winter of this year. The track is still flying but more and more track is finding itself fastened down with feeders dropping through the benchwork. As the test engine and a number of cars are tested at each track switch, I discover I can delete or add a switch or add more track until a problem is solved. For example I had two switches today with a vicious S curve. Solving that problem required relaying, deleting a building and readjusting the entire side of the area until everything was fit. In fact... the final key to my problem was dynamiting a freight dock in one industry building and plans to re building it not as long so that the building can fit into the smaller space and still recieve and ship out rail cars.

Coping? Not a problem. Each month I spent a train allowance. It's a small allowance but makes you plan 6-12 months ahead and order when suitable items are either announced or availible. Eventually the engines, rolling stock etc are finished, now we more into track, wiring and scenery items.

Just today I looked into scenic backdrops for the three walls and started exploring the options availible to me at the Hobby Shop.

That backdrop wont be up until next spring 2009 at least. But it's already cooking on the stove so to speak. It will fall into place when Im ready and not before.

If I had to build 3 years worth of progree in say... by christmas starting tonight? HAH. aint happening. For one thing, half the rolling stock and engines are out of production. Half the structure kits are out of production and the Kato track is now in short supply being supplemented by a precise purchase here and there on Ebay of all things.

I intend to drive the golden spike and run a complete train, switch the place, turn the train around and go back to staging within a month.

But we aint done yet. Im on the other side of 40... I probably wont be done until at least 60 Lord willing. Been playing with Model trains for 35+ years with increasing purpose and enjoyment as the years go by. But to actually establish and maintain a pernament place to run trains without putting it all away at the end of the day? That didnt happen for a very long time.

 

It's a journey, not a race or a problem to cope with.

Model railroaders are a strange eclectic group of people but then we all know that the one thing we all have in common though is not wasting or the need to fill up space. Weather your building a 5000 square foot super mega layout or a 4x8 we strive to fit in as much as possible in a limited amount of space some times to a fault. We want tunnels, bridges, turn tables, engine houses, power plants coal mines and the list goes on and on and on. In some or many cases you wind up with a bowl of spaghetti of track and switches and every type of structure known to man piled one on top of each other and most would never normally be seen any where near the other in the real world. One of the most impressive layouts I've ever seen was on the DVD MR puts out with your new subscription every year and forgive me for not recalling the guys name right now but it was an impressive switching layout shot in a night time scene with details beyond belief and until the camera pulled back you would have never known it was barely larger then 4x8. You need to pick a theme, a time period or an era if you will. Steam, transition, modern etc. and then set your mind to what you want to build or what you like most about that era. I have a friend who is now retired and has moved into a much smaller home to take care of his wife. He went from a massive 2500 sq. foot layout to half of a two car garage and he is modeling the UP engine svc. facility in Chyeanne Wymoing circa late 1950's. When big steam was in it's hayday on the U.P. He has a collection of challengers and big boys that will never pull a sting of cars but he is determended to build a super detail contest grade model. Operation and such doesn't mean anything to him and he's no less of a modeler.

We are all contricted by two things physical space and money our imaginations are limitless in fulfilling possability after possability after all we're modeling the real world can't get much bigger then that.

Jump in and try a few projects, even if its a 1x1 square to test scenery, or weather a car, build a building.....

If we all waited for the perfect time we would never have anything. And space isnt always bigger and better, its what we want within ourselves and build our dreams.,. Will it be the PERFECT layout and everything to the level of a master? WHO CARES!!!! You have to find it in ytourself to build, learn and enjoy. Do you think the masters did everything perfect the first few times?

Stop making excuses and start! Im building my dream and loving every minute of it! It has become my persoanl refuge from the world of work, kids, wife and stress. Its my place for fun and enjoyment. Will it ever be in MR or become a masterpiece? I dont think so, but its good enough for me!

Life isnt or ever gonne be perfect! BUT you can sure enjoy the ride and learn along the way....and relax, this is a hobby....do your best and youll find that the next time youll do even better! Thats part of learning and a part of life.

Maybe by my 20th marriage Ill find one with her own layout???? LOL

 

I am returning to model railroading after a 45 year break. While it might be nice to jump in with a large layout, both operations and great design can be done in a small layout.

I just read an amazing article by the late, great John Allen (of Gorre & Daphetid fame) about what it means to operate in a prototypical fashion. Allen devoted the entire article to describing how one should conduct the seemingly trivial task of putting a train into motion, accelerating to a reasonable speed, and eventually slowing down to a stop. His point is that on a real railroad, there is nothing trivial about getting a train moving and then stopping it again! His further point is that even on the smallest layout, even if you are doing nothing more than "running trains," it can still be done in a protoypical manner.

Another lesson to be learned from John Allen is that you can start small but have big ambitions. The original Gorre & Daphetid was an HO layout measuring 43" x 80". That's it! Over many years, it became a large and complex layout -- what many believe to be the greatest model railroad ever built. But even the original small layout was a masterpiece of design and execution. It was full of clever ideas, brilliant scenery, and a sense of humor. (Gory and Defeated -- get it?)

Model railroading does not have to be all or nothing. You can start small and still do it right.

 - Jeff

Embrace your limitations , they help you think about what is important and what you can work on now .

Skill takes time .Keep working at it .

Space ; the limitation is only in your mind , look at the English they build small layouts that are operational and with a high level of detail .

Funds ; you can always buy a little at a time , I have a small modeling budget , so I make a list of what I want and figure out what I can afford , sometimes I have to buy the parts of a project a little at a time and once I have everything I start the project  .

Limitations are just hurdles to overcome .

My :

Something to keep in mind is that you don't get to see the whole layout either on the forums or in the pages of MR.  What you do see are the best views of it.  My layout, for example, is only half sceniced and it has a 1:1 furnace right in the middle - I don't tend to show off the half that is just track on OSB, and I do my best to keep the furnace out of the pictures.

Another thing you don't see are the results from when the builder was in the middle of the learning curve, or the experements that yeilded less than satisfactory results.  My layout has layers of substandard results hidden beneath layers of better results.  Allow yourself time to learn and keep in mind that a lot of the learning comes from just trying and trying again.  You can get through the learning curve faster by reading and by discussing methods with more experienced modelers (it is rare that you'll find a model railroader who won't let you in on his/her secrets).

I urge you to get started.  I also suggest shopping where you can get good used stuff as a way of dealing with the cost issue (with one exception - buy your electronics new with a warranty).  I shop on eBay and at the swap meets that go with train shows.  I figure that I stay in the hobby for less than half the cost of buying everything brand new.

When it comes to time, think about your reasons for being in the hobby.  I can only speak for myself, but I'm in it because it gives me a creative outlet in which I can spend the time that isn't devoted to something else (girlfriend, work, home upkeep, yard, dog, etc.), so I'm glad to spend as long as it takes; if it ever got finished what would I do?  I know a guy who is really just interested in operation, so he hired some help and they built a huge layout in a matter of a few months.  It's not superdetailed, but it looks good, and boy does it operate!  His reasons for being in the hobby cause him to manage his resources (including time) differently than I do.  Examine your own reasons and manage accordingly.

Hey Chuck,

I understand how you feel. Wasn't too long ago I was in the same boat. I'm in a cramped apartment with not much in the way of room for a big layout. My interest popped in and out like yours. Finally I decided I was going to do it regardless.

Decided on N scale so I could help with the lack of room. Designed a layout with help from many here that was loosely based on Dave Vollmers Pensy. Layout is about 3.5'x7.5' not quite the 4x8. I made it in 4 modules that can be taken apart and stored away. This is a pain because the sections that come apart are not on straightaways but on turns. Makes taking it apart and putting it back together quite a pain but I've been able to manage.

Since then the benchwork is built. Trackwork is down but not perfect. I'm ok with that being this is my training wheels layout as far as I'm concerned. Wiring has started and all feeders are in place. Bus wired come next for me. Already have the bus wires layed out so they can be separated with the layout. New I wanted DCC so bought the Digitrax Zephyr when it was on sale. Buying most things I need on sale when I see them. Using turnout controls similar in design to what Joe Fugate has done on his layout to save money.

Now by no means am I good at any of this stuff. Especially not yet but I wanted to do it so I had to just start. Already have seen how I would do things differently which is great learning for my next layout.

The longer you wait, the closer you get to too late.

Enjoy

Rob

Chuck, you asked how I (the guy who walks around in my moccasins) cope.  It's simple.  As Popeye was heard to observe, "I yam what I yam."  My particular package of skills (or lack thereof) and knowledge are a result of my life experiences.  I don't let the greater skills of others intimidate me, and I don't obsess over how I can make myself seem better than I am - which, to be brutally honest, is fairly mediocre.

As for limitations...

• Space.  The gentleman who runs FasTracks is modeling the Bronx Terminal of the Central Railroad of New Jersey in HO.  When finished, it will be about the size of the much-maligned 4x8 plywood sheet - and will accurately represent ALL the trackage a significant prototype railroad had in the State of New York!  In Z scale, it would be about the size of a TV tray.  Moral - you don't really need the wide open spaces unless you absolutely have to have full-length PRB coal units.  (Aside - the Powder River Basin has a remarkable resemblance to the Plywood Pacific in 1:1 scale.)
• Time.  Patience, Grasshopper.  Building a model railroad, or even a model woodshed to put on a model railroad, isn't a TV program.  You don't have to solve the problems, do the job and finish up in time for the closing commercial.  My own progress can only be described as glacial.  I am building the last layout I am ever likely to build.  If the track is all down and the scenery looks presentable by my 100th birthday, fine.  If not (for whatever reason) neither the full-size world nor my personal world will end - unless the reason is that my personal world HAS ended.
• Money.  "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."  A good model railroad doesn't hinge on buying the latest and greatest.  It is much more satisfying to keep the old standbys running.  The train I parked in my staging yard an hour or so ago is powered by a Tenshodo 0-6-0T that I bought new (as a kit) more than 50 years ago - and that isn't my oldest operating locomotive.  Not being related to the Rockefellers, my modeling has always been rather far down the budgetary priority list.  Never could spend much at any one time.  Somehow acquired all the locomotives and rolling stock I'll need to fully equip a monster layout, plus a lot of other useful stuff.  It just takes time, and a willingness to think outside the box.
• Skills.  Nobody has ever been born knowing much of anything.  Everything, from whistling to sub-nuclear particle physics, has to be learned.  Skills are like knives, they get sharper as you hone them.  NEVER say, "I could never..."  Never is a long time down the road, and you will probably develop unexpected abilities long before you reach the far end.  "I'll be able..." is a much more useful foundation.
• Learning.  Hand in hand with developing skillful fingers is the need to develop a body of knowledge to direct those fingers.  I own a library of model and prototype reference works, and I don't just use them to decorate my bookshelves!  I am not going to start listing titles, but a look at our forum host's book shop is a good place to start.  (One note - a lot of histories of prototype railroads are long on shady financial dealings and boardroom hi-jinks, and short on details of the locomotives, rolling stock, track layouts etc. that made that railroad unique.  Look before you buy.)

One final note.  One's personal rail empire doesn't have to be suitable for display in the Smithsonian.  It only has to satisfy its owner/operator.  If I achieve that, I will consider myself successful.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

ccaranna:

How do you cope with limitations?  (space, modeling skill, funds, etc)

To cope with limited space, I changed scale and gauge slightly, and changed prototype completely. I chose to model a railroad that ran 2 & 3 passenger MU trains and equally short freights. That railroad also had very sharp curves...

Like most blokes here, I don't have unlimited amounts of money to spend on modelling, so I try to stretch my budget further by scratchbuilding as much as I can, rather than simply buying one of everything at the hobby shop. But having said that, choosing a non-mainstream prototype and scale means that the vast majority of newly released models don't tempt me at all, and that makes me frugal by default.

That leaves modelling skills. If all you ever do is read and dream about modelling, or you only buy RTR models, you'll never develop your modelling skills. So build some kits, kitbash something, scratchbuild something. Even an average model you scratchbuilt will give you far more satisfaction than the latest RTR model with all the bells and whistles. Like any creative pursuit, the way to develop your skills is to practice, practice, practice.

Cheers,

Mark.

ccaranna:

How do you cope with limitations?  (space, modeling skill, funds, etc)

• Divide and Conquer Tackle a small project a focus your efforts there.
• Don't Worry About Failure If you "mess a scene up," it is easy to fix or start over.
• Just Do It With al apologies to Nike, I have found that is very easy to over-analyize and over-worry about things (see my backdrop color thread for a good example ).
• Start RIGHT NOW Even if you just do a hollow door layout or a small 2x4' N-scale layout. A module. A diorama. Whatever you do, you will learn things that you can use forever. And you can have BIG FUN on a small scale layout.

From my personal standpoint, I find the last point to be most important. I waited almost 15 years to start a layout because I thought it was going to be a major involvement. Then I finally started one about 4 months ago and I can not believe what I have accomplished on such little time. I often wonder what I would have if I started 15 years ago. Jamie

A lot of the posts have advised you to get started (I'm in that group).  Assuming that you do "Just Do It" I'd like to add one other suggestion:

 

Make every effort to do exceptionally good trackwork (no kinks, no gaps/minimal gaps, smooth curves, straight straights, no vertical undulations, etc.).  The reason is that this hobby loses a lot of its appeal when the trains derail, stall, or uncouple (when you don't want them to).  Track issues can be difficult to fix once it's glued and/or nailed in place.  If there is a part of this hobby where being obsessive/compulsive pays off, it's laying track.  Expect your trackwork to take quite a bit of time (I estimate that I spend 10-15 minutes per foot of flextrack and each turnout is about 30 minutes to an hour).  Still, it's not a race and time spent on your track pays off every minute that you run trains.

 

By the way, the smaller the scale the pickier the trains become.  For example, a 1/16 gap is undesirable in HO scale, but most train traffic will tolerate it; in N scale it will probably cause some trouble; in Z scale...

 

...it won't be pretty.

 To lay reliable track there are a couple of tools that I feel are absolute requirements:  Rail cutters and an NMRA gauge for your scale/gauge

 

Hi!

You have gotten some pretty good advice so far, and take it from one who has been in the hobby since the mid '50s, they know what they are talking about.  Let me add a few more cents worth......

Model railroading can be a life long hobby, and I doubt there is a better one (I've looked!).  However, you cannot expect to start out with an expert level large layout with all the bells and whistles (pun intended) if you are a newbie.  While there may be a few exceptions, it took those of us in the hobby a long time many years to develop the skills, and acquire the stuff (sourced from $$$) to get to what we have today.

Like a lot of MRs, I started with Lionel in the early '50s, and got into HO in the early '60s.  My start with HO was a couple of Athearn locos, and a bunch of Athearn kits.  The track and turnouts were Atlas sectional, and the scenery was handbuilt with plaster and colored sawdust and lichen.  At its peak, there was no more than $100 in it.  That was a lot in the early '60s, but was bought over a period of time.

Regarding skills, you will develop them with time and patience and doing a lot of reading and practice.  MR is especially wonderful in that you can learn about design, electricity, model building, carpentry, painting, etc., etc.  But to get "there" is a never ending process.

Regarding space, many of us started out with no or little space too.  Some got very creative (layout under the bed, in a closet, around the bedroom, etc.), but most had to either join a club or wait for the situation to change.  Ha, when the last of my 4 children went out on their own, the biggest bedroom was then deemed, "the train room".  I was 44 when that happened.

Regarding money, I sure can relate to that.  As a teen I shoveled snow (Chicago) and mowed yards and painted until I got a "real part time job" at age 16.  And then I married and raising 4 kids took all the spare money there was.  However, Christmas and special days always brought with them a few Athearn "blue box" kits ($2-$4 each).  In the last several years, train money is no longer a problem - but it sure was in the early years.

So like some folks said earlier, build that fancy model, read all you can, join a club, and never give up!

Mobilman44

 

shayfan84325:

Make every effort to do exceptionally good trackwork (no kinks, no gaps/minimal gaps, smooth curves, straight straights, no vertical undulations, etc.). 

Absolutely! My "Just do it" comment was more of a state of mind and not a waiver to disregard quality. However, I would add that even if trackwork is not perfect the first time it can be repaired or redone, as I have had to doo on way too many occasions!

As a newcomer to this side (2 rail scale) of the hobby (my kids and I have a Lionel 3 rail layout), I see that a lot of people on this forum have the same thoughts about their layouts that I'm currently having. What do I want to include on and leave off the layout? How much space do I have? Which scale is right for my available space? What era? What roadname? DC or DCC? Etc...This has been an interesting and informative thread for me.

Jim

Coping?  Not me!

To me, the term coping implies some form of behavior modification due to dissatisfaction with a situation.

I went from a 25 x 45 foot double deck layout to an 11 1/2 x 12 foot triple deck layout, but I am not "coping".  I am model railroading and having a blast!

This hobby is all how you percieve it and your particular situation.  While that big ol' monster layout was fun, the smaller one will keep me busy for years on end.  The things that need doing are the same; the planning is the same, the building is the same and the fun is the same.

No coping here; sorry.