Electronics and DCC

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Last post 10-31-2008 12:12 PM by selector. 46 replies.
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10-30-2008 10:57 AM In reply to
Offline simon1966
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 07-07-2003
Metro East St. Louis
Posts 4,378

Re: MRC Computer Interface

Hey Grumpy,

I don't think you would find anyone on this list that would say anything negative about MRC DC power-packs.  They have been, and likely always will be regarded as some of the best on the market.

You will however find many people that have had terrible trouble with MRC decoders, both sound and non-sound.  Both after-market decoders and the ones supplied to Athearn have proven to be very unreliable for many modellers.

In addition to the very poor reputation of the decoders, MRC has had a number of false starts in DCC.  I believe that the current Prodigy line is their 3rd attempt to market a system.  Prior systems are not compatible with the current line and are obsolete, thus leaving the purchasers of these systems high and dry.

Only now, is MRC rounding out its DCC product line to provide the features that others have had for years.  Now I for one am quite prepared to believe that the current MRC DCC system is actually quite well designed, easy to use and offers decent value.  However, what you see expressed here demonstrates just how much damage MRC did to its reputation with their poorly thought out efforts in DCC. 

It take years to build a companies reputation, and a remarkably short time to destroy it.  The fact is, that having damaged the MRC name so badly in DCC circles, simply placing advertising that states that they are leading the DCC market, does not rehabilitate the MRC name. If anything it does further damage as so many consumers have the exact oposite opinion.

I think it will take quite a long time for MRC to regain trust in the DCC market.

10-30-2008 12:02 PM In reply to
Offline Paul3
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 05-24-2002
Massachusetts
Posts 1,709

Re: MRC Computer Interface

grumpy old trainguy,
Wow, your 6th post, and you're slamming everyone here.  I'm suprised you were able to wait so long.  I mean, it must be almost 24 whole hours since you registered here.  Most people take a little longer to form a negative opinion, threaten economic sanctions against Kalmbach, and propose censorship of the forum based on what products one owns.  Congratulations! 

In the event you are serious, allow me to tell you about the "joys" of MRC DCC sound decoders.

I am the Operations Chairman and "DCC guru" at my large (10,000 sq. ft.), old (est. 1938) railroad club (www.ssmrc.org).  We have about 60+ members, and when we started a new layout in 1998, we went with Digitrax DCC.  All locos used in Operations or that are left on the layout overnight must be registered.  Our registration is currently just over 750 locos.  We have monthly decoder clinics where we help each other install decoders and program them.

IOW, I've witnessed a lot of DCC installs and programming (literally, hundreds).

I can say with authority that nothing gives us more problems than MRC sound decoders.  Nothing!

For example, one member bought 4 SD45's with MRC sound.  We were able to program one of them.  He also bought some F-units, and we weren't able to program any of them.  He sold them all, eventually.

Several other members have installed the Atlas S-unit MRC sound board.  I think that's up to 10 locos, now.  Six of them failed, either to program or while running and were all sent back to MRC for repair.

When the Athearn Challengers were new, one member went through three of them, and we couldn't get any of them to program.

Another member has an Athearn Big Boy with MRC sound.  While it does run, it also loses it's address occasionally and it's a pain to get it back to rights.

A few other members have bought the small Roundhouse steamers.  I'd say we have about a 50% failure rate, there, too.  They run, but they won't program.

Then there's the MP15's with MRC sound.  A member bought one, and it had built-in momentum so bad that it took 10 seconds to start to move, and just as long to stop.  This behavior could not be changed.  After the first crash where it went through a bumper post onto the mainline, the loco was returned.

Did you know that it's impossible to read an MRC decoder?  Did you know that when you program an MRC loco to a new address, it doesn't work anymore because it's some random DCC address?  You can't program it back, because the address is something you can't read.  It's a flaming pain in the butt.

Oh, and my favorite part?  If you are running a multi-unit lash up, and there's a track short for some reason, all your MRC sound locos stop working!  Yep, they cease to operate until you can turn them back on.  Which means that you have to manually select each one, wake it up, then go to the next one.  This is highly annoying.

As a rule of thumb, we tell members of our club not to buy MRC DCC anything.  The member of our club that owns a hobby shop refuses to stock them since they are such dogs.  He'll order them for you, but only after warning you about what you're getting.

But the best one of all is when the MRC factory rep. lied to my face.  Back in January, the MRC Atlas switcher sound decoder was just out but I hadn't heard it yet.  Rumors were swirling on the Atlas Forum that they used the wrong sound effect.  Alco S-units used 539 prime movers, a 6-cylinder diesel with dinner plate-sized pistons (yes, I've actually stuck my head into a 539 engine block).  What MRC had done was use an Alco 244 RS-3 prime mover as it's diesel sound.  A 244 is a V-12 (RS-type) or V-16 (PA-type) with smaller cylinders.

I was at the Springfield (MA) show in January, and MRC was there with their factory booth.  I went up to the rep. at the table, and introduced myself, then asked him about the Atlas S-unit sound board.  He had a demo set up and running (but due to the cavernous room and the near-by MTH booth, one could barely hear it).  I told him I had heard a rumor on the internet that the MRC board was a 244 instead of a 539.  He denied it.  "Oh, no, we record all our own sound effects.  If that's what the switcher had, then that's what we put into it."  And then he went on about how MRC did things right, like recording each notch seperately instead of pitch bending it like other manufacturers do, blah, blah, blah.

Of course, when you play the MRC board, it sounds like an RS-3, not an S-2.  And just this summer, one of their advertisements on the back of MR (the one with a NH FL9), it actually lists the Alco S-unit sound board as having an Alco 244 prime mover.  Oops!

As for your Abbot and Costello routine, the difference here isn't that bad things just happen to locos that have MRC sound boards in them, it's that the MRC boards cause the failure at a much higher rate than any other brand.  Using your hat analogy, what if over half the hats made by the Susquehana Hat Company on Bagle Street tore in half when you first put it on your head?  Or maybe the hat brim fell off when you tugged on it?  Would you continue to buy hats from the Susquehana Hat Company on Bagle Street if they continually failed when they were brand new under the most mild use imaginable?

And we're not slamming their DC powerpack line.  If anything, I continue to be impressed by their ruggedness after decades of use.  This only makes their DCC ineptitude even more perplexing.

As for stress, you haven't lived until you tell a new member fresh to the hobby that the loco that he just spent $240 on won't work because it won't take a DCC address.  And even tho' your the DCC guru, you can't fix it.  They look at you with their puppy dog eyes and ask you why?  You have to tell them because MRC is J-U-N-K, and that it's going to have to be returned to MRC for a fix because there's nothing that can be done by you.  That just sucks the life out of the party, know what I mean?

BTW, as for folks not complaining about anything else, only MRC?  Did you not see davidmbedard complaining about Tsunamis in the other thread?  If anything model railroaders love to complain.

And spare me the "it's because of the internet" Salem witch trials act.  Go back and read some old MR's from back in the day.  My club has an almost complete collection.  There were a lot of compaints about plastic vs. metal/wood, kits vs scratchbuilding, 6vdc vs. 12vdc, tinplate vs. scale, etc.  Complaining has been the lifeblood of model railroading since Joshua Lionel Cowen was a little boy.  It's not a recent development in the human condition.  What's that Billy Joel line?  "The good old days weren't always good..."

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

10-30-2008 12:11 PM In reply to
Offline davidmbedard
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 03-26-2004
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts 5,535

Re: MRC Computer Interface

 Aparently, I am an equal-opertunity complainer.

 

In all seriousness, I like to inform.....we pay alot for out toys, and I expect as much.

David B

10-30-2008 1:01 PM In reply to
Offline grumpy old trainguy
Not Ranked
Joined on 10-29-2008
Posts 10

Re: MRC Computer Interface

i know i'm a newbie poster here, i wasn't trying to slam any one person in particular, but look at it as if you were new to this forum and saw the negativity and hate.

you would take a step back and go "Whoaa!!!!", there's enough hate and predjudice in the real 1:1 world that we have to deal with on a daily basis, are we really going to let it seep into the hobby that we enjoy and the hobby that is supposed to make us forget about what goes on the real world....Maybe that's why i'm Grumpy

10-30-2008 1:11 PM In reply to
Offline Driline
Top 200 Contributor
Joined on 07-04-2006
Bettendorf Iowa
Posts 2,046

Re: MRC Computer Interface

grumpy old trainguy:

i know i'm a newbie poster here, i wasn't trying to slam any one person in particular, but look at it as if you were new to this forum and saw the negativity and hate.

you would take a step back and go "Whoaa!!!!", there's enough hate and predjudice in the real 1:1 world that we have to deal with on a daily basis, are we really going to let it seep into the hobby that we enjoy and the hobby that is supposed to make us forget about what goes on the real world....Maybe that's why i'm Grumpy

My guess is

A) You work for MRC

or

B) You failed to take your medication today.

Lets see your layout pics and move on to somthing else.

 

10-30-2008 1:14 PM In reply to
Offline davidmbedard
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 03-26-2004
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts 5,535

Re: MRC Computer Interface

 I dont see any "hate" going on here, just information.  Everything in this thread, and others, pertaining to MRC are based on personal experiences,  This forum is a sharing of experiences.  The OP wanted information on the new yet-to-be-released MRC computer connection and he got information about other people's experiences with MRC products, MRC advertisements and MRC claims about this new Propriatory computer connection.

Yes, you are new to these forums, but obviously you have experience in DCC.  I personally, as an introduction, am a professional installer.  I install, on average, about 10 decoders a week, most of which are high-end sound installs.  There are things about DCC I dont know, but there is a lot that I have had experience with.  I am also a member of a Free-Mo group here in Calgary and I have had a major hand in programming problem decoders for the group.  I can pretty safely say that I have dealt with pretty much every decoder ever produced in the past 5 years.

Lets move on from here, and keep in mind, that yes, this is a community. 

David B

10-30-2008 1:27 PM In reply to
Offline Scarpia
Not Ranked
Joined on 01-28-2008
Lebanon, NH USA
Posts 426

Re: MRC Computer Interface

grumpy old trainguy:


Would any of you guys accept an invite to a party where the rest of the guests are waiting in the wings to beat you up?

 

If I thought I had a chance to reverse negative opinion of my company and it's products, and potentially increase market share in what could be dwindling market as people loose disposable income, than absolutely.   But as has been noted, not all companies are run well, now are they?

 

Cheers!
 

10-30-2008 3:24 PM In reply to
Offline Last Chance
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 05-29-2008
Posts 834

Re: MRC Computer Interface

 No hate here. Just 600 dollars gone and three MRC equiptted engines into the trashcan. THAT is the voice of experience. Not hate.

Money can be replaced, really bad products wont be replaced.

10-30-2008 7:25 PM In reply to
Offline rrinker
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on 02-14-2002
Reading, PA
Posts 8,248

Re: MRC Computer Interface

 I will point out two thigns and I am done posting in this thread. One, there have in the apst couple of days been two brand new psoters who seem to think MRC sound decoders are the best thing ever, better sound quality than any otehr brand, etc. That is a bit suspicious - rememebr the MTH troll a few years ago? This is why I will not be posting in this thread anymore - don;t feed the trolls.

Second, liek everyoen else, I can;t sya enough about MRC's DC power supplies. Somewhere at my Mom's house is the old MRC Dualpack we bought some tiem int he early 70's - if th eline cord is in good condition, I bet it still works today. Same with the Tech II 1500 I bought for an N scale layout I built in 1979 - that took me a long time to save up the money to buy that, it cost more than two of my locos put together, but I decided it was worth it - and it even made my rather junky old Bachmann N scale locos run well. I too am perplexed at their poor DCC products, especially their first two go-arounds. Oh, and I always lusted after the one Controlmaster pack - the IX maybe - it had meters, brake handle, adjustable momentum, pulse width, pulse duration, and some other stuff - and was well over $100 back in the 70's - WAY out of the price range of my 9-10 year old self. If not for DCC, I might actually have one now.

                         --Randy

10-31-2008 12:00 AM In reply to
Offline maxman
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 02-15-2008
Posts 1,202

Re: MRC Computer Interface

rrinker:
two brand new psoters who seem to think MRC sound decoders are the best thing ever, better sound quality than any otehr brand, etc. That is a bit suspicious - rememebr the MTH troll a few years ago? This is why I will not be posting in this thread anymore - don;t feed the trolls.

So, if someone has a bad experience with a product they can trumpet their opinions continually and expect them to be accepted as gospel.  But if someone has a good experience with the same product they're a troll?  I don't think I agree with this.

{a bunch of other stuff here was deleted to keep my post short, plus I didn't want to be called a troll}

10-31-2008 7:43 AM In reply to
Offline rrinker
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on 02-14-2002
Reading, PA
Posts 8,248

Re: MRC Computer Interface

maxman:

rrinker:
two brand new psoters who seem to think MRC sound decoders are the best thing ever, better sound quality than any otehr brand, etc. That is a bit suspicious - rememebr the MTH troll a few years ago? This is why I will not be posting in this thread anymore - don;t feed the trolls.

So, if someone has a bad experience with a product they can trumpet their opinions continually and expect them to be accepted as gospel.  But if someone has a good experience with the same product they're a troll?  I don't think I agree with this.

{a bunch of other stuff here was deleted to keep my post short, plus I didn't want to be called a troll}

 OK so I'll post in here again anyway. No, posting a positive experience is not being a troll. But when the person pops up quite conveniently and makes their first post exulting the greatness of something that more peopel have had problems with than not, and makes light of factual information fromt he manufacturer themselves, that's a little suspicious don't you think?

                --Randy

 

10-31-2008 8:58 AM In reply to
Offline Phoebe Vet
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 09-21-2007
Charlotte, NC
Posts 2,547

Re: MRC Computer Interface

" I for one believe in educating without censorship.  "

Dave:

I think it's just a human shortcoming.  I see similar statements in blogs on the opinion pages of various newspapers:    "Why does (fill in newspaper name here)  allow these people to post such stupid complaints?"

Many of us have trouble understanding why others disagree with us.

Another Dave

10-31-2008 10:38 AM In reply to
Offline miniwyo
Top 200 Contributor
Joined on 01-11-2003
Rock Springs Wy.
Posts 1,869

Re: MRC Computer Interface

I didn't see any mention of it, but NCE released a USB interface at the beginning of the month. 

10-31-2008 10:44 AM In reply to
Offline davidmbedard
Top 50 Contributor
Joined on 03-26-2004
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts 5,535

Re: MRC Computer Interface

miniwyo:

I didn't see any mention of it, but NCE released a USB interface at the beginning of the month. 

 

Thanks for sharing!  Looks as though the biggest improvement is the ability to plug into the Cab bus for a computer connection rather than the booster.....

The price is right!

I will, OTOH, continue to use my RS232 cable.  'Tis mighty quick and my uber computer (30 dollars) is beside my booster.

David B

10-31-2008 10:50 AM In reply to
Offline maxman
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 02-15-2008
Posts 1,202

Re: MRC Computer Interface

rrinker:
that's a little suspicious don't you think?

Maybe, maybe not.  Sometimes people are satisfied to just sit back and watch until something moves them off center.  I had a lengthy reply to this thread that I was going to post two days ago that I deleted because it was in defense of some of the comments made but was not germane to the original topic.  Then, after the troll comment, I was again going to post what I had originally planned to say.  But heeding David B's suggestion that we move on, you can see where I deleted that also and just commented on the troll statement.

I am relatively new to these forums.  If I were a first timer, I think I would be inclined to look at all the "expert" posters (ie: those with posts numbering above 1000) and initially conclude that they know what they're talking about.  But after observing for awhile, it seems that many of the experts are not willing to accept, or admit, that there are those whose experiences or opinions do not reflect their own.  This extends beyond the topic of MRC decoders.  You've got, among others, the guy who has had trouble with every Athearn engine he's had, the guy who says IDCs are lousy because he apparently lives in the humidity capital of the world, the guy who looks down on anyone that wants an alternative to soldering, and the guy who thinks scratch building turnouts is the only way to go.

Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinions.  All I'm suggesting is that there needs to be some balance in what is posted.  If someone asks if an MRC sound decoder is any good, I'd have no problem if someone responded that they had no luck with the one(s) they had personally owned.  But this business of piling on the negativity with big red letters, etc just gets tiresome.  It's my belief that you high numbered posters have an obligation to set an example for the rest of us.  I don't think implying that someone is a troll sets a good example.

But then, those are just my opinions!

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