Electronics and DCC

CSX Robert:

Another feature users wanted was the ability to use the interface on older Windows 98 machines because a lot of people have an older machine they can use in their layout room. Well, the interface will only work with Windows XP and later and MRC's response is "since it is wireless you really do not need a computer in the train room."

I was wondering where you got this information because MRC Tech Support has advised me that their interface will work with Windows 98 and above.

 I wouldnt believe everything the MRC techs tell you........

I had a run in with them that completely put me off of all MRC products (because of the horrible tech support).  Actually, from that point on, we stopped ordering any MRC products and have yet to sell the remainder we have on the shelves.

Another observation.  Most people that I have encountered that have purchased MRC products begin to adopt the MRC mauntra that are posted all over the place...."ease of use"...."no complicated hexa-decimals to figure out".....etc.......I dont know if it is a form of brain washing or self-purchase affirmation or what......it is just plain wierd.  They tend to be defensive with their system and I even had a customer bud in with his "superior" MRC claims when I was chatting it up with another customer about a DCC system purchase.  They also tend to be dead-set against a computer connection and follow that up with questions on how to program complicated sound decoders.......bah!

Personally, I wish MRC would wake up.  They have American-polotical-Style ads that are underhanded and do nothing but infuriate people in the know.  Last time I checked, I have yet to see Digitrax or NCE post an anti-other guy advertisement.   MRC decoders are just horrible, their systems are ok and their customer service is awful.  The problem is that Athearn uses MRC sound decoders (because they come on the cheap) and because of this, alot of people are steering clear of Athearn sound-equipped units.

I personally have owned an MRC 2000 (my first DCC system), Digitrax Empire Builder and NCE Pro Cab wireless.  Each system had a purpose and I enjoyed all of them.  Also, with decoders, I have owned pretty much every one that has been offered.  I can honestly say that MRC decoders are as bad as the word on the street says...

David B

jwils1:

CSX Robert:

Another feature users wanted was the ability to use the interface on older Windows 98 machines because a lot of people have an older machine they can use in their layout room. Well, the interface will only work with Windows XP and later and MRC's response is "since it is wireless you really do not need a computer in the train room."

I was wondering where you got this information because MRC Tech Support has advised me that their interface will work with Windows 98 and above.

 

  Just a guess, but it probably depends on which version of W98. 

  MS took a long time to get their USB ducks in a row, and I've heard that W98 SE (Second Edition) will support some USB devices that the "regular" (first edition) W98 won't.

  But again, that's just a guess.

Steve

 Does windows 98 support USB 2.0?

David B

 JMRI or forget it. One little interface costing a few dozen dollars talks to both my Digitrax Chief and all of my QSI engines directly from the computer.

MRC as usual is only painting themselves into a corner with no opening. If they dont want to share with JMRI, then they dont need to expect sales of thier wonderful bricks.

In fact more and more FREE open source software is taking the place of Microshaft on the computers (Plural) here at the house.

The thing that makes me upset is MRC likes to print these ads and there will ALWAYS be a doofus somewhere in the world awestriken by the glory and the possibilities enough to unload a wad of dollars at least once.

Some people on the MRC-DCC yahoo group commented that they would like for the interface to work with older Windows operating systems or even Linux because they had older computers that they could use in their train room.  There is an MRC tech who was particiaptes in that group, and his response was

it is suppose to work with the newer windows based operating systems, [XP and above]
since it is wireless you really do not need a computer in the train room

 If you go to the group and search the messages for "prodigy wireless computer interface win98" it will bring up some of the messages refering to this topic.  The above quote is from a year ago(to the day, actually) so it is possible that that has changed, but I would not count on it.

I was told today that it is supposed to work with Windows 98 and above so this should be up-to-date info.  I guess we'll just wait and see.

You can easily replace the Win98 SE with a XP and run it well without USB worries. Any number of used computers are showing up on the market with XP ready to go. It's not good to struggle with dead dinosaur operating systems on machines so old that they need hardware upgrades to work with today's advances in train control.

The good news is computer prices fall each year and laptops are getting cheap enough to be a baker's dozen as the Society migrates Everyone towards celluar based internet and wireless. I was told recently that my voice only cell phone was obselete and I needed to get the newer version with data, text, internet, camera.... I replied [censored] and kept going with my old cell LOL.

davidmbedard:

 Does windows 98 support USB 2.0?

David B

 nope. But USB2.0 devices usually are backward compatible and can run at USB1.0 speed, which is more than fast enough for DCC use. Also keep in mind that the initial release of even WIndows XP did not support USB2.0 - there was a patch for that. It hasn;t been an issue since the media had SP1 slipstreamed in a way back when, but a fresh install of XP with an original XP CD with no service packs won't do USB2.0.

 Oh, and the above is correct, Win98 does NOT support USB, Win98SE does. A 'capable' Win98 computer probably can run XP, but unless you can get it up to 512MB RAM it's going to be painfully slow. A slightly newer 'old' system would be a much better choice if you are looking for a secondhand computer for the railroad. My old old system from 8-10 years ago ran XP reasonably well - in fact a friend is using it to this day - but in the secondhand market you can surely find one only 5-6 years old which will be far more capable. But don't pay much for such an old computer - pay attention to the Dell deals and you can get a whole new system for $300. Most of the time these $300 specials are seriously lacking, usually in RAM - but that's cheap to add. But once in a while the $300 special really is a deal and you get  quite worthwhile computer for that - 2GB RAM, 320-500GB hard disk. PLENTY for most people. The missing element is the super high power video card for the latest games. If you're goign to surf, read email, and use JMRI you don't need a super duper video card - and the REALLY good ones of those cost more than the entire rest of the computer.

                                      --Randy

 Win XP is usually issued as Service Pack Two or Three this year. All other previous versions like original and SP1 are in need of upgrading.

You dont need much computer to run JMRI, I assume (Right, here we go) that a old Pentium II chip running 400 or faster clock speed with at least 512 of any old ram will run the program very well.

My JMRI has the rail cirkits interface with USB. Somewhere in the device is a optical connection isolating the computer physically from the track and locomotive. I do have a machine powerful enough to run the latest games and would not want all that wattage to get to the HO scale stuff at all. That is one reason why I passed up the older interface with the serial port.

I could probably build a basic desktop for a few hundred dollars complete, the monitor will be extra. Not much more than the cost of a HO scale locomotive these days.

laptops are selling for around 400 dollars and they are plenty powerful enough to run JMRI very well.

I think the next step will be a interface capable of talking to and listening to data to and from Digitrax DCC via the radio in the train room. No USB needed, just a antenna.

 No, you don't need much to run JMRI. On a slower computer I suspect it would run better under Linux but I haven't tested this (I've laode dit under Linux but not on a slow computer). I did for a while have a P3-700 laptop with 384MB RAM running XP and JMRI would run fine on it, but the initial load time was horrendous (Java is a pig). Once it was loaded it performed just fine, no issues at all.

                          --Randy

rrinker:

 Oh, and the above is correct, Win98 does NOT support USB, Win98SE does.

                                      --Randy

  We're getting off-topic here, but yes, W98 does support USB to a certain extent.  In fact, even the later service releases of W95 had rudimentary USB support. I know this to be true because "back in the day" I used a USB Webcam on W95 OSR2.1. 

See this KB article that compares W95 and W98 USB support: 

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/usbwin98.mspx

    The deciding factor is whether or not the USB device's drivers were written to "make up" for Microsoft's immature USB support in the earlier Windows releases.    

Steve

 SPROG II 

A DCC system and programmer in one little box.

jwils1:

I would love to hear an MRC rep come on here and explain their reasoning.  But, like many politicians, I don't think they would be able to tell the truth, which most likely is that they feel that their chosen course will yield more profit.

MRC systems tend to appeal to first time users because of price and ease of use, and because of their advertising approach.  For many of us, we didn't even realize how important a computer interface would be would be when we first started, then later became aware of the benefit.  If they get enough people to buy their DCC systems, then the majority of them will probably have little choice but to buy the expensive MRC interface once they feel the need for it.

I think that they are wrong, but then I'm sure they are smarter than I am when it comes to making money.  But making money this way is not very appealing to most of us modelers.  

Would any of you guys accept an invite to a party where the rest of the guests are waiting in the wings to beat you up?

If their computer interface is strictly for their line of dcc systems, users of Digi-Trax, NCE, Lenz, Bachman, and other brands of dcc systems should not even voice an opinion on this topic. Let the MRC dcc system users evaluate the product when it finally arrives.

it is amazing to me how these forums generate such negativity and bias towards one manufacturer...

it reminds me of the "Abbott and Costello" skit about the Susquehana Hat Company on Bagle Street...every one hated the hat company because they were either injured or killed while wearing a Susquehana Hat....

was anybody here wearing an MRC product on their head when a safe fell on them from a second story window?

i see alot of people here say "MRC this" and "MRC that", but can somebody here give a straight answer on why they dislike MRC or does anybody here have a legitimate gripe against them.

i have used plenty of MRC products in the past from powerpacks to dcc decoders and never once had a bad customer service issue, or thought that reading their advertisments makes them bad people. I can't even complain about other companies customer service or products because i never suffered from post traumatic stress over a bad model railroad product.

And you know what...alot of products on the market can fail from stoves, cars, VCR's, other appliances, and other manufacturers hobby products, but yet i fail to see anybody complaining or ranting about anything else, just the Susquehana Hat Company

It was always my belief that Model Railroaders were a bunch of great guys that got together to work on an enjoyable hobby, but i see the internet has created a fanatical group of people, who chase people that they deem to be monsters, with torches and pitchforks and then burn them at the stake...sounds like the Salem, Mass. witch hunts all over again.

what's really amazing to me is that a supposedly stand up organization as Kalmbach Publishing/Model Railroader Magazine allows this negativity and bias continue on and on, almost as if they enjoy sitting back and watching this mushroom into a good fight. My subscription dollars may be better spent somewhere else.

 Hold on here.......its not like we dont have any experience with MRC products.  I for one swore by their DC power packs and was excited by their new systems.  However, I quickly realized that MRC DCC systems are limited in the fact that they cannot be connected to a computer.  And the interface that MRC has announced costs MORE than most DCC systems AND it will NOT be support by anyother program than MRC's (this is NOT opinion, but rather what the MRC ads are saying).  If you go back and read every post I have ever posted about MRC DCC systems, you will see this reflected every time.

In terms of their decoders, I used to work in a LHS.  We carried their FULL line of decoders (including N scale sound, HO sound, regular non-sound decoders) and with a 50% return rate, we stopped carrying their product line.  We even stopped bringing in Athearn Sound units for store stock....too many DCC issues.

To top things off, I once had an issue with a customer's decoder.  I fiddled with the setting and found out that by resetting it's 4 digit address, it allowed the decoder to behave (the decoder before hand had 2 speeds, off and full).  I called MRC tech support with this information (hoping to help someone in the future) only to be dismissed SHORTLY by their tech support.

Now, I am allowed an opinion about a product.  And, NO, it is NOT an US vs THEM argument.  Ive used MRC, NCE, Digitrax, Zimo and other systems extensively.  I am not bias towards any of them.  In fact, if you look at my past posts, you will see that I recommend different systems depending on the user's needs.  They all have a place, including MRC systems, in the homes of various Model Railroaders.

These forums are a sharing of ideas.  And the last time I checked, infomation has never hurt anyone.  Should we all spend our hard-earned monies WITHOUT the information that would be CRITICAL to our experiences?   I for one believe in educating without censorship. 

On the other hand, I made a point to read your first 6 posts.  You are currently using a Digitrax system (because you mentioned that you use a DT400) and aparently you have a gripe against Tyco GG1s from the 70's.......Why are you concerned about what people have to say about MRC DCC systems?

David B