Layouts and layout building

Hey everyone.  This is the track plan I've drawn up for the coal mine LDE that I'm planning for my layout.  The model used is going to be the Muir Models Appalachian Coal Mine (i think thats the name of it...  wooden kit in a blue box).  Its a truck dump so there'll be a road up there, but i didn't draw that. 

Anyway, basically what I'm going for is to be able to work the two-track mine while still leaving the branchline main open for traffic, as well as incorporating a run-around for empties approaching from the left to be able to be shoved under the tipple. The dimensions aren't necessarily to scale, as I need to do final planning to set train length limits and such, but this is the general track arrangement that I came up with.  Does this seem like a feasable outline? 

Take the left runaround switch and run it farther to the left.

Your runaround needs to be longer than the engine, caboose and maximum number of coal cars that will fit under the mine. That way you can still work the mine while other traffic goes by.

The usual practice would be to shove the empties past the loadout until the car closest to the turnout is in position to load.  Running a steam loco under the loadout would make you really unpopular!  Not to mention that many loadouts would clear a hopper or gon, but NOT a loco.

If there is a slight downgrade from the bumpers to the turnouts, loads can be rolled out and fresh empties rolled into position.  Controlling that roll on a model LDE could be interesting.  The prototype would have one car moved at a time, with a rider working the handbrakes (footbrakes, on the prototype I watched half a century ago.)

I have seen one prototype with an almost-identical track layout.  It wasn't exactly a truck loadout.  The actual mine was connected to the breaker by a kilometer or so of steeply-graded 500mm gauge mine car track, powered by a 4-wheel gasoline-engined 'critter.'

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with coal mines)

Your trackplan is typical of a model railroader's version of a coal-tipple operation.  Most prototype railroads, however, have trackage providing empty cars without passing under the tipple.  Unlike your plan, there would be a "yard" before and after the tipple.  The most concise source for coal mine trackage I'm aware of is within the December 2006 (LDJ-35) Layout Design Journal published by the NMRA Layout Design Special Interest Group.  A realistic setting may require more length than you have available.  If your layout's highlight is the coal tipple operation, you may want to reconsider so that the end result is convincing.

Mark 

DeadheadGreg wrote:

Basically I'm looking to be able to hold at least 4 hoppers on each tipple track.

Unless your grid is 1 foot squares, and by the width of the track I don't think that's what you have in mind, I don't see you getting 4 cars on either track. 

I would move the left runaround switch as far to the left as possible and put the switches to the tipple at the extreme left end of the "LDE" and make the tipple tracks run at an angle accross the section, so you can spot the 4 or five cars on each track at the mine (remembering of course that a 4 car spot requires a track at a minimum of 7 cars long).

Dave H.

the drawing is not to scale.  i'm usint atlas' software, which has only one 'generic' turnout, plus the track is way too wide.  This is just a general outline of the trackwork; actual dimensions are to be set once a general overall design is chosen. 

i'm kind of confused about having a yard on both sides of a tipple.  is that to leave empties to be winched in from both directions, and to leave loads to be picked up on both sides? 

DeadheadGreg wrote:

i'm kind of confused about having a yard on both sides of a tipple.  is that to leave empties to be winched in from both directions, and to leave loads to be picked up on both sides?

One yard would have the empties, the other yard would have the loaded cars.  Ideally, the tracks were on a slight grade so that cars were moved by gravity.  If not, a powered winch would pull the cars through the coal loader.

Mark

Hmmm okay.  Basically, this design element of my layout is directly inspired by the two tipples on the Coal Fork Extension.  I'm working with a 2-foot wide space just as Tony was, and since his results were outstanding, i'm looking specifically to that layout as my basis.  I'm also planning on buildling this section of my layout "at the workbench" to be installed onto the actual layout at a later time in order to be scenicked at the same time as the rest of the layout. 

I'm also going to be handlaying the trackwork using BK Enterprises point/frog assemblies, working on ME wooden ties, and I'd rather be able to do this at my workbench. 

Would a mine have its own switcher to move cuts of loaded hoppers out from under the tipple, once loaded, and placed into the mine's classification yard?

DeadheadGreg wrote:

Would a mine have its own switcher to move cuts of loaded hoppers out from under the tipple, once loaded, and placed into the mine's classification yard?

I think it would depend on the size of the mine.  I am modeling a three track tipple (New River Mine) with three yard tracks, and I have decided to use a GE 44 ton loco to do the switching at my mine.

DeadheadGreg wrote:

Would a mine have its own switcher to move cuts of loaded hoppers out from under the tipple, once loaded, and placed into the mine's classification yard?

Do you have other industries near by. You could have a switcher parked nearby and it could move cars for the mine and the other close industries. Unless like previously stated, the mine would have its own engine if the mine was large enough to warrent it. What year are you modeling? You could have a tractor or backhoe to push/pull cars through tipple. A winch is also used.

Mike

DeadheadGreg wrote:

Would a mine have its own switcher to move cuts of loaded hoppers out from under the tipple, once loaded, and placed into the mine's classification yard?

More often than not, no.  If the mine handled a LOT of cars (50-75) maybe, if it handled a couple hundred cars, yes for sure.

For the size mine and track plan you have drawn, no.

Dave H.

yeah i'm not going to be modelling anything huge; maybe a max of 8 or so hoppers per train.  I'd like to be able to fit 4 cars on each mine track. 

basically my operating scheme is to have branchline engines pick up cuts of empties, bring them up to the mine(s), gather the loads and bring them back down to the interchange with the mainline.