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Last post 02-25-2009 11:59 AM by HarveyK400. 125 replies.
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11-19-2008 7:26 AM In reply to
Offline Phoebe Vet
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Joined on 09-21-2007
Charlotte, NC
Posts 2,541

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

01-13-2009 7:12 PM In reply to
Offline ns3010
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Joined on 11-04-2008
Jersey
Posts 1,154

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Perfect Example of not enough parking:

The Park n Ride in Mt. Arlington NJ opened only a year ago. Every day, on my way to school, the bus goes past it on Route 80. Every day, EVERY SINGLE PARKING SPACE is occupied. In a year (it opened last January IIRC) it has become so popular that there is nowhere to park at the station. They absolutely need a parking garage or something.

01-14-2009 12:00 PM In reply to
Offline gardendance
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Joined on 08-04-2005
Posts 332

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Are you talking about a parking lot at the Mt. Arlington train station? What was there before it opened?

01-14-2009 2:49 PM In reply to
Offline ns3010
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Joined on 11-04-2008
Jersey
Posts 1,154

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

A parking lot. With a bus stop. That didn't get nearly as much use as is does now with the train station.

01-14-2009 3:49 PM In reply to
Offline gardendance
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Joined on 08-04-2005
Posts 332

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that Mt. Arlington did not have a train station before a year ago, and did they get the new parking lot around the same time they got the train station?

01-14-2009 4:40 PM In reply to
Offline al-in-chgo
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Joined on 10-23-2006
Chicago, Ill.
Posts 2,717

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Thanks for the article, P.V.!  -  a.s.

 

01-15-2009 7:15 PM In reply to
Offline ns3010
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Joined on 11-04-2008
Jersey
Posts 1,154

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

The train station opened last January. The park n ride was previously only  a bus stop. I believe that it is the same parking lot, although they may have expanded it slightly.

And BTW, there were no spots left when we passed at 7:13 this morning.

01-23-2009 4:18 PM In reply to
Offline modorney
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Joined on 01-11-2004
Posts 25

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Phoebe Vet:

A large part of the cost of transportation systems is the cost of selling, the fare evidence, verifying and enforcing the payment of the fare, collecting, protecting, and accounting for the collected fares, etc.  I often wonder what the difference in cost per rider would be if a tax on city parking spaces was implimented and used to fund a totally free extensive mass transit system.

Out here in San Francisco, we have spare the air days,when transit is free for a day.  Yes, we get about ten percent more riders but we encountered another problem.  Since the system is free, lots of troublemakers ride - people who harass the rest of the riders, snatch purses, panhandle, sell candy, etc.  And they tend to do things that delay the trains, like block the doors, ride on the roof, or between cars (on the outside, walking between cars inside is allowed), or hang on the grab irons and ride outside or on the rear.  So, now we open it up until Noon, or so, then it is a pay system. 

About half our expenses are covered by fares, the other half is from sales tax (3/4 %) and property tax (like $50 per house).  10 percent comes from ads and renting the right of way (to communications companies, for cables and fiber optic). 

Half our stations are suburban (BART is a combination subway and commuter railroad) and most fill up by 8 AM.  As a result, the huge capital investment is lightly used from 8 to Noon.  There are lots of park and ride spaces within a couple of miles of many stations, but here's the challenge.  If you drive to a lot at 9 AM and park you can get a bus to the train station.  But, when your 10 to 6 job ends, and you get back to your station at 7 or 8 (or 10 if you go out after work) the buses are no longer running.   We need a method of getting to those lots after 6 PM.

One method is to have a shuttle make the rounds of all the lots near a particular station.  Generally, a trip that covers half a dozen lots, each within 2 miles of the station, would take about 20 minutes.  So, one shuttle could meet every other train (15 minute schedule).  Cost is not a big deal, as long as it was around 2 or 3 bucks. 

Another option are the cabs.  I've been in cities where I had something I had to carry 2 blocks, so I took a cab.  4 bucks - 2 for the flag drop, and about a buck a block.  So I gave the cabbie six bucks.  He spent more time writing down his trip than actually doing it!  The cabbies at the suburban stations are looking for the 25 buck trips (10 miles), but if they had a steady stream of 5 buck vouchers, going to the lots, they would be happy.  With pretax dollars and subsidies, these vouchers would cost the rider about 2 bucks, and the cabby would have a few dozen at the end of the night - well worth his while.  We already have "work late" vouchers (I think one is limited to five a year), so the system is in place.  Most of us have no great aversion to short bus rides - flying into an airport usually involves either a shuttle to the hotel, or a shuttle to the rental car lot.  What most people want to avoid is an hour-long bus ride, when they could be on a train, doing something semi productive or entertaining. 

For BART, low cost satellite lots would give us a 20 percent ridership boost. 

 Fundamentally, we are an automotive society.  There is a minimum level of education that parents want for their kids and they are going to move far enough out to get that level.  That means commuting involves a short car trip, for most suburban riders.   If you are in the transit business, you are in the parking business.

01-26-2009 10:44 AM In reply to
Offline gardendance
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Joined on 08-04-2005
Posts 332

Re: Kiss and Ride Lots Never enough kissing....

 

01-26-2009 2:26 PM In reply to
Online blue streak 1
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 12-23-2007
Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
Posts 1,407

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Phoebe:   The news wire announced that AMT (Montreal) is working to add 10,000 parking spaces. For a commuter rail system that is not that large then it is a giant step to having enough parking there.

02-17-2009 9:18 AM In reply to
Offline Phoebe Vet
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 09-21-2007
Charlotte, NC
Posts 2,541

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

al-in-chgo:

Thanks for the article, P.V.!  -  a.s.

 

January 2009 Monthly Report Overall RidershipRidership across all services increased 4.3% for the month of January 2009 compared to January 2008 and system-wide average daily ridership surpassed 83,500.  Regular bus ridership increased 2.2% while LYNX services increased 16.0% as compared to January 2008.  Community Circulators and Regional Express services also increased.  Activity Center Circulators, STS and Vanpool showed a decrease for the month but if the calendar days had been comparable to January 2008, they would have increased.  STS maintained an increase while Human Services Transportation services ridership continues to decrease as a result of changes made to State Medicaid regulations.

 

02-17-2009 9:47 PM In reply to
Offline matthewsaggie
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Joined on 08-30-2006
Matthews NC
Posts 74

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

Pheobe,

You were fast to get this up today, but it semed out of the blue- perhaps you should have stated it was from the Monthly Service Report for Charlotte Area Transit System, CATS. Most people here are not going to know about our neighborhood circulators, STS service, etc. LINX and regular bus service totals looked good though, even with lower gas costs, we were still up.

 --RSM           AKA-Matthewsaggie  

02-17-2009 11:17 PM In reply to
Offline Phoebe Vet
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 09-21-2007
Charlotte, NC
Posts 2,541

Re: Park and Ride Lots Never enough parking....

That is true.  I put it up there, only for the benefit of those people in here who keep insisting that the success of the system is just because of the high gas prices and that the lower gas prices we have been experiencing for the last few months would result in big declines.

The layoffs that are beginning by both big banks will probably have an adverse impact in the near future, though.

 

02-18-2009 12:51 AM In reply to
Offline al-in-chgo
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 10-23-2006
Chicago, Ill.
Posts 2,717

Re: Kiss and Ride Lots Never enough kissing....

gardendance:

 

Re: Kiss and Ride Lots  Never enough kissing....

Apparently there is a suburb of London that has had quite enough of kissing.  I saw on TV where the city fathers put a "No Kissing" sign at that suburb's railway station:  yup, conventional Euro-pictogram of a man's profile, a woman's in curlers, and the red line slashing through.  Ironically, here in the USA we call drop-off zones at RT or heavy-rail "kiss-and-ride," or at least we used to.  - a.s.

 

02-18-2009 3:55 AM In reply to
Offline Bongo
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Joined on 02-07-2009
Posts 14

Re: Kiss and Ride Lots Never enough kissing....

al-in-chgo:

gardendance:

 

Re: Kiss and Ride Lots  Never enough kissing....

Apparently there is a suburb of London that has had quite enough of kissing.  I saw on TV where the city fathers put a "No Kissing" sign at that suburb's railway station:  yup, conventional Euro-pictogram of a man's profile, a woman's in curlers, and the red line slashing through.  Ironically, here in the USA we call drop-off zones at RT or heavy-rail "kiss-and-ride," or at least we used to.  - a.s.

 

The original article is here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/61464.stm

It is a town in northen England, but the original signs came from Chicago.

From a UK perspective the discussion on station parking etc. is interesting.  London commuters have no real option but the train, so the fares are high and so are charges to park at the stations where the car parks are often full, particularly at main stations.  A return from my local station to London (about 40 miles out) is £25.90 plus about £8 to park which adds up to about $50.  There are reductions for monthly tickets but it is a significant cost to which there is no viable alternative.

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