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Last post 03-20-2008 8:34 PM by Lars Fredrik. 23 replies.
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03-18-2008 9:55 AM In reply to
Offline OldArmy94
Not Ranked
Joined on 01-10-2001
US
Posts 101

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

Thank you all for the very good discussion on this.  According to Wikipedia, the reason why the US has a "superior" system as compared to buffer and chain coupling is that Congress forced the railroads to adopt an automatic system and eliminate hook and pin coupling.  I guess when  you have a gillion little nations and they can't agree on anything, I shouldn't be surprised to see a lack of uniformity.  However, I would've thought that the UK would have been more inclined to go their own way on this and adopt a different standard.
03-18-2008 10:11 AM In reply to
Offline Flint Hills Tex
Not Ranked
Joined on 09-20-2005
Good Old Germany
Posts 159

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

I've lived in Germany for almost 20 years now, and the buffer and chain coupling is still predominant. The German DB began using something similar to knuckle coupings on heavy freight such as ore unit trains in the late seventies.

As far as safety is concerned, most yards are flat and switched by locomotives. I have a DB rules book, and it is absolutely prohibited to stand between the rails while a car is being shunted for coupling. The official practice is for the switcher to push the car/cars up to the car with which it is to be coupled until the buffers are not only touching but are pressed in several inches. Then, a yardworker ducks under the buffers, hooks up the chain, tightens it, hooks up the brake pipe hoses, then ducks back out. This process is really not significantly longer than hooking up the brake pipe in the US.

The buffer and chain coupling provides for smoother passenger operations due to less slack, in particular in push-pull operations. As has already been mentioned, though, most modern passenger equipment uses Scharfenberg couplers, which not only provide a mechanical, but also an electric and pneumatic connection between cars. Most of this equipment has multiple powered axles throughout the train as opposed to a locomotive and cars with unpowered axles.

If I recall this correctly, the heavy freight knuckle couplers also have a built in pneumatic hook-up. I could just as well ask why North American Railroads do not adopt the DB style couplers, as this would save time and be safer than having a guy go in between cars to hook up hoses.

03-18-2008 8:18 PM In reply to
Offline rixflix
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Joined on 03-08-2003
US
Posts 396

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

And then there's European screw couplers. Jeez, I nearly blushed! When and where were they used? Maybe they still are. That system always looked like a real chore.

What does the Darjeeling-Himalaya use? I'd like to know before riding that road even if only in my dreams.

RIXFLIX   

03-19-2008 8:20 AM In reply to
Offline mhurley87f
Not Ranked
Joined on 10-28-2004
U K
Posts 139

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

Opinions would seem to be split on this, and it seems the people who've never witnessed European screw couplings in everyday use that label their use dangerous and inefficient, whereas those who have seen them in use, are quite relaxed.

Yes, it seems that more and more bulk product freight wagons are being equipped with some form of automatic coupler, but US fans have to realise that the overwhelming majority of UK freights run as block trains from origin to destination with very very little intermediate shunting (sorry, switching) work needed. Very often, the only time such a block train might need to be split is when an individual wagon needs to have a regular inspection.

So what about Buffers? 

Can RWM or anyone else explain why they don't seem to have been used/accepted in North America?  

Hwyl,

Martin

 

03-19-2008 9:39 AM In reply to
Offline tree68
Top 25 Contributor
Joined on 12-25-2001
Northern New York
Posts 9,166

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

 mhurley87f wrote:

So what about Buffers? 

Can RWM or anyone else explain why they don't seem to have been used/accepted in North America?  

Several thoughts -

Since North American couplers are self-locking, there is no need to maintain any sort of tension on the connection.

Part of the buffer function is provided by the draft gear, particularly in "Cushion Underframe" type installations.

Drawbar installations (rather analagous to the concept of running trains as solid blocks all the time) are generally not well liked.  Even unit coal trains, which tend to run as solid blocks almost all of the time, use couplers instead of drawbars, even though drawbars might reduce slack action and the possibility of a broken coupler.

Just my take on the issue.

03-19-2008 11:23 AM In reply to
Offline gabe
Top 150 Contributor
Joined on 03-15-2004
Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts 2,361

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

So when I take my daughter, who loves Thomas, to Europe she will not be confused.

Gabe

03-20-2008 3:21 AM In reply to
Offline Tulyar15
Not Ranked
Joined on 07-13-2005
Bath, England, UK
Posts 713

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

 OldArmy94 wrote:
However, I would've thought that the UK would have been more inclined to go their own way on this and adopt a different standard.


I think the first attempt at setting standards for couplings and also loading gauge in Europe was just after WW1. At that time in Britain the railways had been merged by the UK Govt. in to the Big Four companies, and I think all four companies sent observers to these talks. Standards in Britain had since the 1840's been co-ordinated by the Railway Clear Housing (just like the Assn. of American Railroad does in the US). By this time train ferries were in operation between Britain and Continental Europe so it made sense to try and co-ordinate standards. Also during WW1 a lot of British locos were requisitioned by the UK Army and used in France (and elsewhere, particularly the Middle East).
03-20-2008 3:37 AM In reply to
Offline rrandb
Top 500 Contributor
Joined on 12-21-2001
K.C.,MO.
Posts 1,064

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

Because they can?? LOL!

03-20-2008 8:34 PM In reply to
Offline Lars Fredrik
Not Ranked
Joined on 04-12-2007
Oslo
Posts 7

Re: Why do Europeans still use "buffer and chain" coupling?

 It is possible to get a little slack with buffer and chain also... Usually they are a bit tighter. This is a bad example from two old lumber cars. 

 

Most of the arguments for or against buffer and chain are already mentioned.  Of course the do not accept very high tonnage, but they are sufficiant for the trains we pull today. Irone ore trains, at least here in Scandinavia, use russian SA3-couplers. 

 

Marc explained how you "hump" by first slacking the couplers before you release the chain from the hook with a pole. Here in Norway it is prohibithed to stand between cars that hit each other after "humping".

 

As far as I know you have to go between to couple the air hoses with american couplers. It does not take very much longer to first put the chain in the hook and tighten. 

 

Most EMUs og DMUs have automatic couplers, usually a Scharfenberg product. These couplers have the air hoses in the coupling, hence no manual work is needed. The air hoses opens and closes automatic.

 

And why were not all buffer and chain couplers replaced with automatic couplers a spesific date in the 1970's as UIC decided? I guess money had somthing to do with it...

 

/LF 

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