Layouts and layout building

I have not used that design, BUT, I have used most of the WS products and though they are expensive, they sure do work well. I am laying the inclines for the first time this week. It sure is easier than all the other ways I have tried.

If I was on my first layout, a prepackaged layout like that might be nice.  For a couple things, it would work and it would look nice. You would also learn many of the techniques. Unless the cost is an issue, it would be a great way to start.

ctozzi wrote:

I just built a 4X8 stand for a layout and was looking at building the woodland grand valley setup. For those of you who have built this before is this good for a beginner and someone who wants to modify this down the road ?

Make sure you put it on solid bench work, and modify the plan to allow future expansion. That just means a couple of extra switches leading to the edge of the module.

Consider it a correspondence course on layout building. You will learn how to make terrain and scenery as you follow their very clear and easy directions. Then you can apply that knowledge when you design and build future modules from your own ideas.

It uses all 18 inch radius turns. That's pretty tight for passenger cars and steam engines.

I built the River Pass. I just glued it to a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 inch sub flooring and set it on a folding table. GIANT MISTAKE! BENCH WORK IS EVERYTHING! You would not believe what was involved in getting it flattened out when I began to expand. Funny, sitting on the table it didn't LOOK like the wood had warped. It is still embedded in my now 20x18 around the room layout, but my passenger and steam stuff just passes through it, they do not go around within it. I was able to make the outer loop greater than 18 inch using flex track, but it's still tighter than the rest of the layout which has all 30 inch or greater curves except in the subway tunnels.

I did, however, learn much building it. Sadly, I had not yet discovered this forum.

I bought their risers for my N scale Smokey Hollow Junction layout. I plan on making my own layout using the track pack from the Smokey Junction layout from Terrain for Trains. It's cheaper (1/3 the cost), and I would enjoy it more.

I think WS makes some great products, and you might be able to find some cheaper WS stuff on eBay.

Here's a thought I had recently regarding this exact "kit".....

While 18" raduis curves are tight for most HO equipment (especially modern stuff) it's perfect for narrow gauge. In looking at the Grand Valley set-up it lends itself well to a small HOn3 layout. With the new HOn3 stuff coming out from Blackstone (the K-27 'Mudhen' is awesome) and Micro Trains you could have a pretty sweet set-up. 

I've even toyed with the idea of doing dual gauge trackage. Of course you have to modify the track plan to eliminate the 90 and 60 deg crossovers since these are not available in dual scale. You would also have to modify 1 narrow gauge turnout to have and extra outside rail on the straight thru portion. (this means only narrow gauge stuff can use the siding) but then you can run HO and HOn3 trains. If you run standard HO stick with smaller cars (40' max box cars), small diesels (RS-2/3) and small steam switchers (0-6-0, 2-4-0, etc.) for more realism.

Now I know narrow gauge isn't for everyone but going this route allows a little more realistic look to the rolling stock. Narrow gauge freaight cars are 30' long and would look much better on those tight radii. You're going to pay a bit more for the rolling stock and loco but that's a decision you have to make, which IMO would be worth it. You could even run narrow gauge passenger cars with out them looking funny on the tight curves. The good news is structure kits are plentiful since HO is HO whether narrow or standard gauge. 

You'll have to evaluate what future plans might be. It's possible to integrate the Grand Valley into a larger layout but IMO that would be harder to do than starting with a blank sheet. No matter what you decide (HO or HOn3), as others have said, allow for at least an expansion module (akin to what John Olsen did for his Jerome and Southwestern).  

The Grand Valley looks like a very quick and easy way to "jump start" a layout and get trains running. One of the easiest ways for a newcomer to lose interest in the hobby is to spend a lot of time doing the prep work before actually running trains. The faster you can get to the point of running a train will make you feel like you've accomplished something and begin to get enjoyment from it.

just my nickel's worth...

-G- 

It's a good starter layout, but it doesn't look like it lends itself to modification or expansion very easily.
Someone on this forum bought one of the Terrain for Trains foam bases for this and had trouble getting the track to fit the way the instructions showed. They had to use some flex track and make a few mods.

Narrow or dual gauge would be cool, but this layout depends on using Atlas HO track.

As others have suggested allow for future expansion so you don't loose your initial investment (or face tearing it apart) later.

If you buy the Grand Valley Track Pack kit (from Atlas) add the following items to your order:

1 # 542 Left Hand Snap Switch

1 # 543 Right Hand Snap Switch

1 # 534 Package (4) 1/3 18" Radius. 

2 9" straight track (I forgot the number).

Replace the first curve sections on the front corners of the layout with the Snap Switches plus 1/3 curve section.  This should be an exact replacement for a full size 18" curve section if I remember correctly.  Add the straight sections to the straight leg of the switch.

You should now have a a couple of straight connections on front side of the layout for future expansion.  You can easily add just a small "staging yard" on a board to one side and really enhance your operations.

Good luck,
-John 

I just got the scenic ridge set that is n-scale just last weekend.

My $0.02 on this kind of set.

A)  You get a lot of experience with a lot of techniques really fast.

B)  You have something to 'play with' and see if this hobby is for you long term.   I think this is a lot better than building an oval, or trying to build grand central station in a spare room with your initial exhuberance about the hobby.

C)  I don't worry about 'future expansion' as some of the others have pointed out, there isn't a lot.  In my experience with a lot of hobbies ripping apart something that works is fun to some, but to others it's not so much fun.   These sets are small enough that putting them together and getting them running are enjoyable, but could be concievably done in a very short period of time if you can devote a day or two at a time.  Due to the semi-cookie cutter way their system works though you can start/stop pretty easily.

For me this was a way to 'just get started' and stop being stuck with trying to figure out how to get started with creating something completely from scratch.  I'm sure it'll help you decide if you like the idea of the foam everywhere approach for the base track, or just using the risers when you want to make your track climb.

It is a larger initial investment than a few pieces now and then, but I think it's a great way to jump in completely to start. 

There at the top, you can see the River Pass embedded  in my now  much larger layout.

ctozzi wrote:

I just built a 4X8 stand for a layout and was looking at building the woodland grand valley setup. For those of you who have built this before is this good for a beginner and someone who wants to modify this down the road ?

  Regarding cost, especially for begineers, many times, these kits come out ahead as being actually less expensive vs. a begineer trying to make layout plan x they see in a book, and learning the costly way by making mistakes while doing it.

  Such mistakes are much less likely in these type of kits.