Layouts and layout building

I have just recieved and have been running my G scale SD45 on the floor for about a week now to determine if it is capable of derailing and so far there has not been one such incident.  I am totally new to this and being 69 years old seem to have run out of wisdom as I would like to put the track on top of my 2 and a half car garage with a pizza hut type roof.   I plan to build the road bed out of 2x6 lumber but have concern that it will derail at some point and destroy itself when it hits the ground.  I also plan to build a 3 per cent grade to get it up on the roof.  Has anyone had any experience with this or have any constructrive ideas.  Thanks,  My first model train. 

Yeah, it's gonna derail.  If the garage is surrounded by soft, forgiving turf, with the exception of a 2-foot concrete walkway, you know exactly where it will derail.

What are the visibility issues?  I'd suggest providing some sort of protection so that a derailment will NOT result in a brief career as a ballistic projectile.  If you're looking from above, then a 2x4 barrier around the outside should do it.  If you need to see through to get the effect you want, think about a mesh like chain-link fence to protect it.

Hey SD456789

Our Club here built a 22' x 88' "G" scale layout in the local Library it is 20 ' feet in the air,it took us 2 years to build and we have been running going on 3 years,we have never had a deralment that caused anything to fall from that high, I can count the Derailments on one hand and they flop over onto the side and just sit there till we pull out the ol step ladder and re rail,now we had one worker leave a switch open that was a dead end and supposed to be nailed shut, Our Aristocraft Steamer Bailed threw it and down to the floor,were Lucky not much damage to speak of, any cars that have fallen have been by someone not clearing up their tools after they have finished for the day,so now we have Like and order board to make sure we have removed everything before it is open back to the public who sit under this entire layout, We made our roadbed out of the 2 inch Pink foam, we cut it like the HO Cork design on a table saw, we also made a Jig for the corners as well so the track is all at the same hight,it runs smooth and quite,If you building foundations are sound you will have no problems, we haven't and like I said this will be year 3 of constant everyday operation of this huge G scale layout.

Mike

That's certainly a novel idea. If you're going to use a 3% grade, I estimate that's about 48 laps around the garage until the train reaches the roof. Does that sound about right? If so, you could lay claim to the world's largest helix.

Another consideration - do you plan to move anything into or out of the garage after you build the railroad? Such as a car, for example? If so, you're gonna need 48 swinging bridges - really big ones too.

Also, are all four sides of your roof clearly visible from ground level? Or will you have to run up to the bedroom to see if a train has derailed?

Frankly, I think the issue of derailment is one of your lesser problems. Just hang a fishnet below the track to catch the trains.

Overall, sounds like a great idea to me. Go for it, and please post pictures of your progress. 

By the way, are you married? Just curious.

Since this is large scale related I'll risk venturing back over to here, but the Garden RR forum is likely where this should be, be that as it may...some questions as I'm a little confused by your idea.

Is the track ment to be seen only from the ground below, or are you thinking using the open rooftop as your layout area instead of the garage with the mansard roof acting as the walls or railings? 

How high up does the Pizza Hut mansard roof sides come up above the roof level?

Wind will be your most likely cause of derailments. If the garage has a Pizza Hut mansard (thats what that type of roof is called), why not build the layout so the height of the benchwork is about 3 or 4 inches below the top of the mansard and use the rooftop like a raised patio?

Do you have easy access to that roof area?

If the roof sides are high enough, like 36" above the flat roof and could act like defacto handrails, then you could build your benchwork right up to that height, lay the track on it and create a raised layout that could go around the inside perimeter of the roof, you'd have to be carefull about how you protected the roofing material from the benchwork supports, and an additional layer of some protective material would be recommended to protect the roofing, flat roof are notoriously easy to punch a leak into. What you would end up with is essentially a raised patio over the garage, where your trains are. A raised layout like this is nice because you dont have to stoop over like a ground level layout.

All this is very conditional on whether you have good access to the roof, either a direct doorway from the second floor or a stairway that allows you easy access, if you have to use a ladder, forget it, waaay to dangerous to tote a 9lb engine up and down.

Dont know about running thru the garage up to the roof, that engine needs a pretty wide radius curve and could eat up almost all the garage just to accomodate the curves or a helix in one corner to take the train up to the roof.

Pictures of your condition would help alot.

When your train derailed, did it fall on it's side or just move off the tracks slightly and continue to stand up.  The issue here is how wide I need to make the roadbed.   I was planning to use a 2x6 piece of wood all the way around the building.  It would probably extend out some at the ends so I would have to possibly build a structure, not sure.   I am really wondering what happens when the train derails as I have been running it for some time now on the floor and can't get it to derail.  The engine weighs 16 lbs without weight.  I would like to get this project finished as I plan to use it for Christmas with lights etc.

I would be concerned about the structural stability of the 2x6 (treated or not it will warp/twist/sweep. This deformation may cause derailing issues down the road.

I can't comment on the overall plan since I still have not pictured the structure and your planned trackage. Maybe a mental block on my end.

concretelackey wrote:

I would be concerned about the structural stability of the 2x6 (treated or not it will warp/twist/sweep. This deformation may cause derailing issues down the road. I can't comment on the overall plan since I still have not pictured the structure and your planned trackage. Maybe a mental block on my end.

I don't understand the reasoning for any of this. Is the train to start at some benchwork level 40-48" above the garage floor and climb @ 3% and exit the garage only to encircle the outside mansard of the gararge roof? How are you to watch the train? Am I misunderstanding something here, and you want the train to climb inside the garage to a height that it travels around the framework of the mansard?

Seems like a lot of work and quite a bit of alterations to existing stable framework if you plan on running this on the outside of the garage. Any mounting of these roadbed 2x6s, even if they are mounted on fabricated brackets that can mount under a shingle as well as the radius cut pieces of most likely laminated 2 layer of 3/4" plywood, would possibly work, but if you live in a climate of some severe wet weather, this will deteriorate in short order.

Why not put all this effort into a real nice garden layout with this scale? You could stage inside the garage and exit to the outdoor layout.

  Possibly a dumb question, but how are you going to get the track with reasonable curve radius to go around the corners of that hip roof without blowing the visual effects by cantilevering much of the trackage in midair? My LHS has a G-scale model that just runs from 1 bumper to the other and back after a long pause at each end, thus eliminating the curves.

  An interesting project!     Have fun...George 

BigG wrote:

Possibly a dumb question, but how are you going to get the track with reasonable curve radius to go around the corners of that hip roof without blowing the visual effects by cantilevering much of the trackage in midair? My LHS has a G-scale model that just runs from 1 bumper to the other and back after a long pause at each end, thus eliminating the curves.   An interesting project!     Have fun...George

Exactly, what is the min radius for G scale?

BigG wrote:

Possibly a dumb question, but how are you going to get the track with reasonable curve radius to go around the corners of that hip roof without blowing the visual effects by cantilevering much of the trackage in midair? My LHS has a G-scale model that just runs from 1 bumper to the other and back after a long pause at each end, thus eliminating the curves.   An interesting project!     Have fun...George

Without blowing the visual effects? You mean it might look unrealistic?

I was thinking about the fabulous scenic opportunities such a layout could provide. Scale model of the Himalayas, for example.

SD456789 wrote:

The garage does not have a mansard roof.   I should have correctly called it a hip roof about 40' by 32'.  I plan to have the train exit from the roof on the front via. a 3 or 4 % grade and circle out on the lawn and then back into the garage on the backside through a hole in the wall where I can park it on the bench which is about 3 1/2' high.  The edge of the roof of the garage is about 6 1/2' high.

Now I'm getting the picture. How far do you estimate the train will run from the roof until it reaches your lawn? Will it be in your front or back yard?