Lord Atmo wrote:thank you, Alec. while they may all be parts of the SD45 series, they aren't all Sd45s. just like SD60Ms, SD60MACs, SD60Is and SD60Fs are part of the SD60 series, but are not SD60s
thank you, Alec. while they may all be parts of the SD45 series, they aren't all Sd45s. just like SD60Ms, SD60MACs, SD60Is and SD60Fs are part of the SD60 series, but are not SD60s
To put it nicely, your an idiot.
An SD60 is an SD60.
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wctransfer wrote: Ok ok ok! Slow down. You guys are getting to technical! Here, hopefully this will clear things up.Im talking about a straight SD45. Not tunnel motors, and not SD45-2s. James, while they may be the same thing on the inside, the frame is much different. And the SD45T-2 is LONGER than the SD45. So is the SD45-2. So really, they arent the same. Sure, they have 20 cylinders, but they also have HTC trucks, and Dash 2 electronics. SD45s didnt. Apples and oranges! Alec
Ok ok ok! Slow down. You guys are getting to technical! Here, hopefully this will clear things up.
Im talking about a straight SD45. Not tunnel motors, and not SD45-2s. James, while they may be the same thing on the inside, the frame is much different. And the SD45T-2 is LONGER than the SD45. So is the SD45-2. So really, they arent the same. Sure, they have 20 cylinders, but they also have HTC trucks, and Dash 2 electronics. SD45s didnt. Apples and oranges!
Alec
Boy..you guys don't understand do you. Obviously your head is too far up your rear end to read what I have posted. So read this carefully and try to understand with your feeble mind. When a company evalutates a locomotive they do not look at the design of the car body, truck side frames included, doesn't matter how long or how short. They look at the interior. The prime mover, the traction motors, the electrical. All of that goes into the name of the locomotive. So when it is classified as an SD45!!!! doesn't matter if there's a -2 or T in it, it's still and SD45. All, and I mean all, locomotives that are desiginated from an SD45, -2 or not is classified an SD45.
Now, take this to the books and I want some real hardcore proof that I am wrong. I've got very good sources from where I got this information. So before you come back here whinning to me that I'm so dead wrong, you better give me some proof.
As I have said before. If the SD45T-2 came out before your "orginal" SD45 came out, you would think the SD45T-2 would be the original.
James
no no no..... if it carries the SD45 designation, it's an SD45. if it has even one letter or number after the name, it's part of the SD45 series, but not a straight SD45. you can't bunch them all together and call them all SD45s when there IS model out there that goes by the name of SD45 and nothing more!
SD60Fs are NOT SD60s. they are part of the SD60 series! and how could you even insult the great-looking machine the SD60 is by calling that *** ugly thing (SD60Fs) an SD60 anyway?
Lord Atmo wrote:i mean because american firefighters and locomotives of the SD60 series are the same thing....
WOW! Did you really not understand that?
i understood it. i was implying you're once again comparing apples to oranges.
and also, these variants are BASED off of SD45s. but they are NOT SD45s.
if electronics is part of what determine's the locomotive's type, then you can't call the SD45-2 an SD45. the SD45-2 has dash 2 electronics and the SD45 doesnt. there's a difference and therefore the name needs to be noteably different as well.
and regardless, this all proves that no, there are NOT very many SD45s left and no class 1s still have any!
Lord Atmo wrote:i understood it. i was implying you're once again comparing apples to oranges. and also, these variants are BASED off of SD45s. but they are NOT SD45s. if electronics is part of what determine's the locomotive's type, then you can't call the SD45-2 an SD45. the SD45-2 has dash 2 electronics and the SD45 doesnt. there's a difference and therefore the name needs to be noteably different as well.and regardless, this all proves that no, there are NOT very many SD45s left and no class 1s still have any!
DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN ANALOGY IS!?
Well then the WC SD45's werent real SD45's. Because most of them had updated electronics and the WC derated them. I guess WC never had REAL SD45's after all.
CMSTPP wrote: wctransfer wrote: Ok ok ok! Slow down. You guys are getting to technical! Here, hopefully this will clear things up.Im talking about a straight SD45. Not tunnel motors, and not SD45-2s. James, while they may be the same thing on the inside, the frame is much different. And the SD45T-2 is LONGER than the SD45. So is the SD45-2. So really, they arent the same. Sure, they have 20 cylinders, but they also have HTC trucks, and Dash 2 electronics. SD45s didnt. Apples and oranges! Alec Boy..you guys don't understand do you. Obviously your head is too far up your rear end to read what I have posted. So read this carefully and try to understand with your feeble mind. When a company evalutates a locomotive they do not look at the design of the car body, truck side frames included, doesn't matter how long or how short. They look at the interior. The prime mover, the traction motors, the electrical. All of that goes into the name of the locomotive. So when it is classified as an SD45!!!! doesn't matter if there's a -2 or T in it, it's still and SD45. All, and I mean all, locomotives that are desiginated from an SD45, -2 or not is classified an SD45.Now, take this to the books and I want some real hardcore proof that I am wrong. I've got very good sources from where I got this information. So before you come back here whinning to me that I'm so dead wrong, you better give me some proof.As I have said before. If the SD45T-2 came out before your "orginal" SD45 came out, you would think the SD45T-2 would be the original.James
James,
It might be helpful if you cited your source. And if your source is someone working for a railroad today, could you ask him why in his opinion EMD is wrong, and he is correct.
My source for disputing what you say are the builder's plates put on the SD45-2s and the SD45s by EMD. They are made out of steel, so I'm guessing that they qualify as the hardcore proof you required.
To my thinking it would matter a great deal to an engine broker or someone in the market for one, as an SD45 is between 41 and 36 years old, while an SD45-2 is newer and has a better electronic system. It may also matter because the fan assembly on an SD45T-2 is much harder to deal with than that on an SD45 or SD45-2. Meanwhile, an SDP45 might be of use for the extra room in the car body and for the larger fuel tank it can hold. All of these reasons make it important for some people to know (possibly not your source, these things may not matter to him), but for others to know what engine they are dealing with per the name given to the engine by EMD.
Now, that being said, I will point out in favor of your arguement that when EMD made the SDP40F, the reason the engine wasn't called the FP40 (which would have been correct at the time) was that EMD did not want to put a new model in their catalog (for economic reasons having to do with price controls in place at the time), and thus called the FP40 the SDP40F, so that it would be a version of the SD40-2. But, I believe that any locomotive broker would want to know about that extra P and extra F in the name so he knows what he's getting.
I think in the end this is really all about symantics. Some folks wanted to see flared SD45s and were told about unflared SD45-2s and SD45T-2s, which are newer and thus logically more likely to still be in service.
For future, you could distinguish between flared and unflared if the EMD designations are problematic for you. But, I'm sure someone else would attack you for not using correct nomenclature. (And, yes, you're right if you're thinking, wait a minute, a flared SD70M and an unflared SD70M are the same... but again, in that case I fall back to my failsafe identification method... I call them what the manufacturer calls them.)
Lastly, I just thought I'd add, that while I agree with Lord Atmo (again, what it says on the builder's plate is what matters to me), the difference between all those SD60s and the SD45 versus SD45-2 arguement is that the SD60s were all in the EMD catalog at the same time. The SD45 and SD45-2 were not.
In this month's issue of Trains magazine, I saw the somber news...
"CN stores, retires last of the WC SD45s"
"The last of 110 SD45s Canadian National inherited from Wisconsin Central in its 2001 merger, engine 7514 arrived at Woodcrest, Ill., for storage on Jan. 28."